halftrackinfo
armor plate => fenders, door hardware and other body parts (non armor) => Topic started by: bright87 on March 04, 2014, 06:29:52 PM
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Hey guys-
Does anyone have any measurements for the rear steps and bumper for a M2? Building mine from scratch and only have a few pictures to go off of.
Any help will be appreciated.
-Michael
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Mine are currently off. I can get some photos and measurements this weekend.
Steve A.
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I had the brackets but not the diamond plate step, so I had a local metal shop cut and bend them out of aluminum, since I have rear luggage racks no one is going to be able to step on them,I had them made to 26 inches long, 7 1/2 wide with a one inch lip, they fit my brackets perfectly. If you would like a picture let me know. Bob.
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Steve- Did you ever get those measurements and pictures? Especially the brackets.
Bob- Yes-pictures would be great!
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Here are the pictures, I'll try to get out tomorrow and draw a sketch and get some dimensions, we've got sustained winds of 40 right now and it's been blowing all day, all I know for sure is they are 26 inches wide, the bumper is pretty basic it's 6 inches tall and 2 deep.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/47lincsled/DSC_0006-6.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/47lincsled/media/DSC_0006-6.jpg.html)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/47lincsled/DSC_0005-5.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/47lincsled/media/DSC_0005-5.jpg.html)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/47lincsled/DSC_0004-8.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/47lincsled/media/DSC_0004-8.jpg.html)
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There is diagrams of the rear steeps in the file from Bob. the only problem is that it doesn't show where to bend the step at or what gauge the steel is. Its listed as "gillard.dwg". You will need to download a program to view the files though. I think adobe might open it. If your interested I can try to convert it to a work sheet using my CAD.
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Thanks for the photos Bob!!
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Do you need measurement on the whole step assembly or just the top piece of diamond plate?
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The whole assembly- I think i can already make the diamond plate step and bumper channel, but i need the rest of it.
Thanks-Michael
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I'm not a draftsman so I hope between the picture and this drawing you can figure out how these are built!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/47lincsled/Scan.jpeg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/47lincsled/media/Scan.jpeg.html)
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I too need help with the rear bumper assembly. I have recently been able to read Bobs drawings, and have been taking his beautiful CAD work and started the task of "dumbing" it down a bit by handwriting it out in a way that I can use it more effectively for my garage based technology.
My main problem is that I think there are some errors in the material thicknesses that are noted for some parts. In fact he calls for 1/4" plate on all major bumper parts that he includes in the file.(bumper parts that are not included in the "gillard.dwg" file include: top diamond plate tread step, and a small channel bracket that connects the lowest inboard portion on the bumper directly to the chassis frame)
From examining photos I would agree that the following pieces are all made of 1/4"material:
-triangular side
-2.5" flat bar "J"-bracket that supports inboard portion of tread step.
-lower chassis to bumper support strut (the small piece of channel that connects the the inboard/lowest part of the bumper directly to the frame)
The following are confirmed 10ga parts:
-tread step (Diamond plate)
-trailer plug bracket and B.O. light brackets
Now I believe the following are made of thinner materials as we'll; possibly 10ga. Or 3/16" at most:
-main back plate of the whole bumper that has "S" bend
-rear facing bumper channel (the part were you typically see with unit nomenclature painted)
So, can I beg for someone with original steps to help me confirm the thickness on materials in question?
Thanks in advance for you time.
Martin J.
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sorry about the measurements, it was really nasty when I shot those pictures. The big back piece is .0205 and the bumper is .020, so 3/16 stock would be about right, I left out a support bracket, between the rear frame cross member and the bumper assembly, mine aren't installed right now,I'll have to dig them out and shoot a picture. Bob.
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Thanks a bunch for the help Bob. That was just the information I needed.
No apologies needed, I would have just stayed inside.
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Hello all, I've been busy getting Don's and my track ready for Tower Park. It's over now. After I wash down my track tomorrow I will see what I can do about bumper measurements. My apologizes for the long delay.
One thing I vaguely remember is that there are two rear bumper styles. One with the solid end triangle piece and one with open end. White and Autocar were the only ones making the M2 variant so my guess is that White had the enclosed end and Autocar had the open end. Can someone verify this? Also the lower rear step support, there were two types. I have the later one and I'm trying to get photos of the earlier ones. The last M2 on Government Liquidations has those early supports.
Steve A.
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Here are the braces, they are 8 inches long,4 1/2 wide and 1 1/2 inches deep,all measurement are outside the box, hopefully the square will give you a good idea of measurements.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/47lincsled/DSC_0009-1.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/47lincsled/media/DSC_0009-1.jpg.html)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/47lincsled/DSC_0008-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/47lincsled/media/DSC_0008-2.jpg.html)(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v354/47lincsled/DSC_0007-2.jpg) (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/47lincsled/media/DSC_0007-2.jpg.html)
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I assume others will notice I misplace a decimal point on those measurements, they should be .205 thick and .20, or about 3/16th thick.
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Here is the drawing of the right rear bumperette. Reverse everything for the left. I will work on the triangle end and inner supports tomorrow. The bumperettes I have are reproduction and are 1/4" thick. I'm not sure what the originals were. Looking at the drawing again, top view should be bottom view. Will have photos to go with this tomorrow. I'm not sure what the two upper center holes are for as they are not in use.
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/DSCN18161.JPG)
Steve A.
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Today I tackled the side end cap triangle piece. First, here are some detailed photos of the bumper. First photo is up side down.
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN1817a.jpg)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN18181.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN18191.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN18202.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN18212.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN18221.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN1823.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN1827a.jpg)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN18281.JPG)
The end cap was a complicated piece to measure out with bends on all sides and then integrated into the main bumper piece. The holes on the top are approximate as the front two are for the step plate and are not original. The back two holes are to mount to the underside of the rear corner track armor. With my gas tank and cover in the way I couldn't get to them to measure properly. So, when your assembly is done and mounted in place with the front mounting bolts then transfer punch or drill out the other two holes.
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/DSCN1830.JPG)
I will get to the main bumper piece and bracket next week.
Steve A.
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Thanks for the great info guys!!
Does the short crossbrace mount on top of the idler toggle arm?
Michael
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Yes, the small tab that is on one end is meant to rest on top of the arm.
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On my bumper braces the small tab on them is 3/8 round stock,looks like Steve's is too. I never got mine put back on because it's a lot harder to do once the bed is bolted on, you can't get straight on those bolts with an impact!
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Mine is actually a square piece of stock welded on the end. Here are some photos I had on file before I cleaned them up. I will get measurements and a drawing of this next week.
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/100_4806.jpg)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/100_4807.jpg)
Steve A.
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You know, now that i think about it, i have one of those in my parts box. But, instead of the tab being folded down, it has one elongated hole and sticks straight out!!!!
Mine is an early M2, is this correct?
Michael
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Here are some of Gillards drawings I converted to pdf.
Found a couple of errors on the bumper body print and revised it.
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Wow, That is awesome! How and what progreame did you use to convert those? Please PM me with info so I can start converting his files. It would also help me organize what all I have from him. Also, the main piece, middle drawing is 3/16" not 1/4" as stated in drawing. Also, the first drawing should be a simple "L". the last bend shouldn't be their. See my photos above. Again, Awesome work bright87! ;D
Steve A.
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I used my autocad program, and added the dimensions to his drawings. On the "L" bracket the little tab is what is welded to the main bracket on assembly.
Michael
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I see what you mean about the lip on the "J" bracket but my original looks mor like an "L" with a piece of flat stock welded to the main step piece for support. The part of my "L" bracket that rests on top of that piece even looks like it was notched out a little to make level. Here is a photo. I will get more tomorrow. I think either way will work. Also note, the main bumper piece is 3/16" not 1/4" as indicated on his CAD file. All other parts are 1/4" though. What CAD program are you using? Is it easy to use? I might be interested in getting a program to convert Bob's drawing like you did unless that is something you want to do. I'm in the process of sorting all his files into halftrack, scoutcar, M2HB side plates, M1919 side plates etc.
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/DSCN18191.JPG)
Thanks again for posting the drawings.
Steve A.
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Steve-
I use Autocad2004, which is the full blown CAD program. Many sell it on ebay, and they come with books that take you thru some sample drawings.
There are some free versions you can download, such as Draftsight. I would not have time to convert all the drawings (800+), but if you see anything you need, I can do it for you.
If you are coming to Louisville next month, I can show you some things.
I will correct the metal thickness issue tomorrow and post a drawing for the taillight bracket.
Michael
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Autocad is an Awesome and powerful program but can take some time to learn. I have Alibre hobby and it is a decent program for simpler stuff and a lot cheaper. It took me about 3 days to learn it. built in tutorials make it simple.
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I did not realize these steps were so massive, until I started building them!
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Since bright87 measured out the main bumper piece and "J" bracket I see no need to draw it out unless someone still wants me to then I will. Thanks again bright87 for that.
Steve A.
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Steve- I could always use someone with an original to check these prints for accuracy. I have already found some errors and corrected them.
Michael
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I would be very appreciative if someone (hint, hint, Steve) could verify the basic dimentions of the main bumper back/body piece and compare to the PDF that bright87 posted. I am unable to covert the "gillard.dwg" file to PDF but I do have a bare bones free app that I have been able to view the files with. Everything I've looked at so far has been right on with either Steve's drawings or the PDF's that bright87 posted (BTW, Thanks a bunch for that). The problem I'm having is that I am getting different measurements for this particular piece than the ones displayed in the PDF form. I do feel that bright's measurements are the correct ones, but I am overly cautious on this project as I have already produced all the parts for a pair of rear bumpers based on the best information available to me at that time. Of course their just off a little on some measurements so I've decided not to use them. So, obviously I would like to avoid building a second set of "almost correct" bumpers.
Below is a screen shot of what my program is showing for the CAD drawing, as well as a measurement I grabbed this morning that shows the distance between the inboard mounting locations on an original M2 bed for this piece..... Long story short, the info from my two pictures don't tell the same story and that's why I'd like to make absolutely sure the PDF dimensions are spot on.
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I have also been finding errors in the prints, but I can correct the post as needed with verified information. The end result for these posts, as well as this great site, will be to have the most correct information possible for restorers.
Michael
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Bombfarm-
Do not build you steps directly from Gillards CAD file-I did and mine are 1" too short and bent in the wrong locations!
Download the pdf I posted and also verify everything-always.
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I agree that there are a number of inaccurate items in those drawings. I've not been too vocal due to the fact that I don't have an original set in hand to compare to and be 100% sure. Thanks to everyone posting though, it looks like like we're close to wrapping this thing up.
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Im glad Im not the only one that thought the files where incorrect. I figured I had just missed some thing!
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I will do my best in filling all requests. I will do my beast in getting measurements of the main rear bumper piece as mine is bolted in place. It takes two people for me to remove the bumper and I have to remove the gas tank cover to get to the bolts but will do my best. Just an FYI the CAD drawing of the mail piece bright 87 supplied is upside down it that helps.
Steve A.
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Guys- What I would probably do is just drill a couple of holes to hold any of these parts in position, and if everything lines up, mark and drill all the others using the holes in the armor for a guide.
Just my opinion.
Michael
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Well here they are boys and girls- lots of work and a few curse words. I made mine out of 1/4" sheet because i had lots of it, and did not want to buy a piece of 3/16" just for this.
Thanks for all the help that was given.
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Nice work Michael!!
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The bumper looks GREAT!! ;D
Keep up the good work.
Steve A.
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Did anyone figure out if White had the enclosed bumper end and Autocar's was open?
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Yes White was a enclosed and Autocar had the open style.
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Great! Thanks for the info.
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Looking at the step i see the holes are counter sunk. Are the holes in the armor counter sunk to match ?