halftrackinfo

general discussion => ALL mechanical and technical related questions => Topic started by: mkoloc on August 02, 2020, 12:50:52 PM

Title: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 02, 2020, 12:50:52 PM
You know in retrospect, there are simple things you can do to make Halftrack Life so much easier when you don't have your head up your third point of contact! 

As many of you know thru my various posts I've been struggling with a slight issue with my tracks engine.  Solid rebuild on the carb and fuel pump, distributor check, coil, vacuum leak check etc... but still questionable.

Grand kids were here last weekend and I decided to take them for their 1st ride and it was the 1st time I've driven the Queen since the Carb install several weeks ago (did I mention fnnn work and overtime?).  Queen started and ran nicely during her warmup, but when we hit the road I still noticed that she was not quite running right and power was not where it should be.  All had fun, enjoyed the ride etc except yours truly. 

Fast forward to today.. ordered a OTC compression tool set which arrived last Wednesday.. work has been crazy, heat has been insane and so I waited till today with the cool weather that just set in .. not only that but I've never had a compression test set.  Instructions are good but I decided to modify my approach and did not warm up the Queen before testing.  Figured if everything was close regards values I'd reinstall the plugs and follow the instructions.

Cylinders 1-4 and 6 ran 118 psi each, cylinder 5 was dead!!!  So I believe I now have my culprit identified.  Valve issue!!!
Going to remove the head and start there.  Bad valve? Broken spring?  Significant carbon buildup?  No matter, I feel so empowered and excited to find the issue, I can't wait. 

I gave notice and had my last day at work Friday as all my earnings were being plowed into my nonprofit.. actually retired from active duty Army in 2011, so it had been a few years, and what passes for management was driving me nuts.  Not sure how companies make any money if the Ass Clowns that ran this place are a sample of what is out there.  Ego's and not enough brains between them to pour piss out of the proverbial boot!!!

Anyway going go tear into it this week.  ;D

Question 1:  Who still has head gaskets?

Question 2:  If the valves or springs are crap, who carries those goddies? 

Will shoot some pics of my progress and what I find on my explorations!!

Markus

Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 02, 2020, 12:57:31 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/TLr5r92n/IMG-20200802-144841.jpg)[/url

[url=https://postimg.cc/V58D2ZtQ](https://i.postimg.cc/V58D2ZtQ/IMG-20200802-144821.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TLr5r92n)
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: steve1973 on August 02, 2020, 08:37:42 PM
Rod Shaver and David Yamulla has head gaskets. I can get them also along with the side cover and oil pan gaskets. Liberty Engineering has a limited number of plunger assemblies. That is all you need for the lifters as long as the main body is OK. Be prepared to pay $$$ for them. They are not cheap.

Steve A.
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: steve1973 on August 02, 2020, 08:42:11 PM
Before pulling the head off I would remove the rear side cover and check the movement of number 5 valves first. It may be broken rings on the piston. You can also try putting a little oil if you can direct it into number 5 cylinder and check compression. Just a thought. Let me know if you need any help.

Steve A.
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 03, 2020, 12:23:21 PM
Number 5 intake valve is stuck open ... not much but enough to mess with my compression .. checked it out with my camera. 

So pulled my carb, intake and exhaust manifolds,  side covers  and will pull the head tomorrow .  Must have some carbon build up on the seat or stem either way should not be a difficult fix.  Ordered a upper gasket set from Gary .. opps, meant to say Jill  ;) so that covers everything to include the exhaust pipe copper gasket.

Pics tomorrow!

(https://i.postimg.cc/LnW0bdxD/IMG-20200812-165433.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/LnW0bdxD)
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: R.E.Co. on August 03, 2020, 05:26:20 PM
I had a similar issue. Rotate the crank pulley until the valve is at the top of its open position. Take a soft wire wheel brush or plastic wheel brush and gently go underneath and around the valve. Best bet is to do all of them just to be sure.  Good luck!

Jon
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 04, 2020, 09:24:44 AM
Jon, great minds think alike, Dremel with soft brass brush is standing by LOL.  If I have to I'll pull the lifter assembly and pull the valve ...in looking thru the manual, I realized that it is the exhaust valve that's stuck open and probably has been so for years ... Lesson Learned, Always run a compression check 1st!!
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: steve1973 on August 04, 2020, 09:43:02 AM
You will need some shims to hold the valves open. I used these and worked great!! https://www.mcmaster.com/slotted-shims/slotted-tapered-shims/

(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/20200224_133901.jpg)

Steve A.
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 04, 2020, 01:40:03 PM
Great idea Steve, will have to pick up a set for future use.  Used a different technique today but achieved the result I was looking for.  Valve opens and closes nicely!!  Just a bit of crud on the stem.  Cleaned seat and valve with Dremel and brass brush .. ran it several times thru it's cycle and it open and closes nicely as do all the other valves. 
Pic for u to view.  Now just waiting on new gasket set.

Question, my head bolts are quality bolts, and have only been used one time.  The threads look fine, but to be on the safe side I'm thinking of replacing them.  Any thoughts on reusing quality grade bolts on the head?

Mark
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 04, 2020, 02:30:28 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/18vrjCnD/IMG-20200804-152224.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/18vrjCnD)

Have a short video not sure how to post ..

Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 05, 2020, 08:31:18 AM
Checking the manual for the Torque value for the head bolts believe the manual is wrong .. should the value be in the 100-120- Range?
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: R.E.Co. on August 05, 2020, 09:50:39 AM
I ran 75 ftlbs, ran it abit, then went upto 85 on all of them. no leaks, good compression.

Jon
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: steve1973 on August 05, 2020, 10:10:59 AM
The correct torque value is 75 foot-pounds. After you get the engine up to temperature you will need to re torque the head bolts again. Don't forget to use copper coat on your head gasket, both sides.

Steve A.
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: Torque on August 05, 2020, 07:44:55 PM
The Motors manual I have lists the head bolt torque for the White A150 and A250 as 105-110 lb ft. These are the civilian versions of the halftrack engine.
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: spillmk1 on August 06, 2020, 05:21:58 AM
Seems like these different torque values come up every time this question is asked with strong opinions from
very knowledgeable folks on both sides of the discussion.

I went with the 75 ft/lbs on mine with a couple of re-torques.

Low compression engine and a lot of head bolts.
Torque on a flathead Ford around 60-70 ft/lbs.

These engines aren't 14 to 1 fire breathers.  ;)

My 2 cents.

Thanks,
Keith

Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: steve1973 on August 06, 2020, 10:37:36 AM
Here is the official document from the war department issued September of 1944.

(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/20200623_142755.jpg)

Steve A.
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: Ma Deuce on August 07, 2020, 04:29:15 AM
FYI head bolt torque sequence
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 07, 2020, 02:46:20 PM
Thank you all for the excellent info .. looking back at my journal I torqued my headbolts to 100 lbs. on the final pass, based on input at that time.  Gary at Halftrack.com insisted that they should be torqued at 110 lbs. looking thru old posts on the G and as one of you stated there seem a bit of controversy regards torque values .. I'll go with the correction to the TM at 70-75 Foot lbs.  ..if there is an issue with that I can always add more foot pounds to the equation on the second pass after she warms up!

When I recovered the queen and pulled the head .. the headbolts were on so tight it took me forever to get them off, and two bolts on number one cylinder were stripped.  The French might have had the wrong torque specs from an older manual.  Would explain things.

New gasket set arrives tomorrow .. everything is cleaned up and ready to reinstall.  Cant wait to hear her run on all cylinders.  Will post a video on my YouTube Channel of her 1st startup and run with the valve fixed .. maybe I'll even throw Trumps banned video on the end of mine for sh!ts and giggles!  :o
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: Tapper02 on August 07, 2020, 03:24:23 PM
FYI head bolt torque sequence

Thanks for that Mark...never knew there was a sequence.

-Tom
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 07, 2020, 04:44:07 PM
Tom, great to hear from you ..old heads have a bit of a arch to them so when installing the headbolts you start at the center and work your way out evenly on both ends ... repeat until you reach your torque value ... run the vehicle until the engine is warmed up and repeat your tightening sequence .. best way to take the arch out of the head without machining it .. this from the guy who knows how to torgue the head down, but skips the basic compression test LOL!!

Hope things are going well out on the left coast ????. Just picked up my 4 50 Cal M2s for the track!!! They are set up to fire propane .. exciting addition to the nonprofit project.

Stay safe!!
Mark
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 12, 2020, 07:24:20 PM
Well, she is back together with one exception, the breather line brass fitting from the head to aircleaner snapped off during disassembly.. will need to work the remnant out and replace with a new one (see pic).

Started her up this evening and could not believe how smooth she runs!!!  Idle is set at 700 rpm and she ticks over like a sewing machine.  When I gave her a bit of throttle it blew me away how much stronger she runs... can't wait to take her out for a test run which will have to wait until Saturday as they are resurfacing the streets right now.  Will shoot a video and post it on my YouTube Channel.

Pics:
(https://i.postimg.cc/1nMv0bgp/IMG-20200812-163752.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1nMv0bgp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/18vrjCnD/IMG-20200804-152224.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/18vrjCnD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/Yvg8DvG2/IMG-20200812-134442.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Yvg8DvG2)

(https://i.postimg.cc/yWtmqVzD/IMG-20200812-134435.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yWtmqVzD)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2VJLbT53/IMG-20200812-155724.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2VJLbT53)

(https://i.postimg.cc/v4k7ybnq/IMG-20200812-162710.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/v4k7ybnq)
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: 8683jb on August 12, 2020, 10:42:12 PM
Nice job Mark. It looks great!
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: coreyelliott on August 13, 2020, 12:31:23 AM
Great to hear!

Corey
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 13, 2020, 01:55:47 PM
Here is a link to my YouTube Channel showing the track running after the valve fix'

                                https://youtu.be/unGx71W4fbU
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: coreyelliott on August 13, 2020, 03:38:47 PM
Motor sounds great now, Mark.  Congratulations!  I know you're happy, I can hear it in your voice.

Corey
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: spec4don on August 14, 2020, 08:14:39 PM
Excellent!

Don G.
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: spillmk1 on August 15, 2020, 05:27:30 AM
Very nice!!!!
These old long stroke motors are smooth running lumps!!

Keith
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 15, 2020, 12:02:21 PM
You just gotta love these old beasts .. with the engine torque and the trany set up, you can drag a barn across a field!!

Took the Queen out for a drive today and she hit the pavement hard and like the regal beauty she is!!  Here is a link to my YouTube Channel of our adventure today.  It is such a kick to get and drive these babies, and the attention garnered by the public makes it the real deal regards preserving these historic and rare vehicles!!  Enjoy, I did!!

  https://youtu.be/j5U5e40e8yc
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: RB-058 on August 15, 2020, 12:29:03 PM
Another great video Mark! I'm experiencing that driving feeling through these! It will take me some time to reach that point but I'm getting motivated by this as well!

Keep m coming!

Rob
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: steve1973 on August 16, 2020, 12:00:41 PM
Hi Mark,
I watched your video last night. Great job!!

Steve A.
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 17, 2020, 10:03:36 PM
Thanks Rob, I was motivated several years ago by a gent named Kevin Kronland who has since passed .. got to ride in his M16 right after I got mine home and before I started on that project... the assistance and support I've recieved over the years from others on these forums and in the collector community has been motivating beyond description like the two phone calls I recieved today from Jon B and Steve A regards starting on my trany project. 

I have a pretty decent idea of what I'll need to do to replace my clutch if I can't adjust it enough to address the slippage, but it's motivating to chat with others who have already been there and to be able to validate the process and get clarification on a few things that for myself aren't exactly clear when going thru the manual.  It's like having a team of mechanics or subject matter experts working on the project with you and does a lot to relieve that nagging bit of anxiety that sometimes comes from doing something for the 1st time.
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: coreyelliott on August 18, 2020, 01:24:00 PM
Hi Mark,

In regards to the adjustment of your clutch.  I'm assuming you're referring to turning the adjustment ring on the clutch itself.  If that's the case, there is a chance the ring doesn't want to turn without some persuasion. An air hammer/air chisel is your best friend!  We couldn't get ours to turn and my ex-diesel mechanic father-in-law told me that is what they had to use on all of the big rigs.

Corey
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: steve1973 on August 18, 2020, 06:18:15 PM
Hi Mark,

In regards to the adjustment of your clutch.  I'm assuming you're referring to turning the adjustment ring on the clutch itself.  If that's the case, there is a chance the ring doesn't want to turn without some persuasion. An air hammer/air chisel is your best friend!  We couldn't get ours to turn and my ex-diesel mechanic father-in-law told me that is what they had to use on all of the big rigs.

Corey

As per the manual you need to have someone pressing down on the clutch pedal and the other person turns the clutch disc. It turns easier that way. ;) ;D

Steve A.
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: coreyelliott on August 19, 2020, 01:45:02 PM
What Steve said is so very true!  But ours still wouldn’t budge.  ;D

Corey
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 20, 2020, 06:54:58 PM
Pulled my access plate tonight and just happened to have an adjustment ring opening (?) almost sitting at the access plate opening.  Per the attached pics, I don't see a locking plate or bolt between the lugs on the adjusting ring  ..so I'm assuming that there must be more than one opening in the cluster and one of those openings as I rotate the cluster to the opening will reveal the bolt and locking ring lock.

Is that a fair assumption or do I have a hybrid clutch locking ring  ;D !!

(https://i.postimg.cc/XrkFCf7K/RIMG0006.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XrkFCf7K)

(https://i.postimg.cc/QF31C4sx/RIMG0007.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/QF31C4sx)

(https://i.postimg.cc/gwMZMGhn/RIMG0002.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/gwMZMGhn)

(https://i.postimg.cc/5H9zqX6h/RIMG0004.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/5H9zqX6h)
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: steve1973 on August 20, 2020, 07:03:50 PM
You need to turn the clutch. You will see a bolt holding a flat piece of metal holding it in place. Tap the start button, but keep switch off to rotate engine. Helps with two people for this.

Steve A.
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: coreyelliott on August 20, 2020, 07:50:30 PM
What Steve said.  You're 180 degrees out.  The matching slot (or at least very similar) has a bolt holding on a lug that needs to be removed.

Corey
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 21, 2020, 05:58:42 AM
That's what I figured..just wanted to validate it  ;)
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 21, 2020, 07:29:06 PM
All right, clutch adjusted .. space between throwout bearing and spring face was roughly 1/4 " .  Adjusted out to approx 3/8+" .  Everything shifted smoothly as it sat idling and the clutch pedal was more even regards movement.  Will take her out for a spin this weekend weather permitting to test out the clutch.
Title: Re: Head Gasket for a White HT
Post by: mkoloc on August 24, 2020, 08:51:28 PM
Well, I will need to replace my clutch  ::)  But at least I have it figured out, and it feels good to at finally have the engine running so smoothly.  In retrospect, it would be so much different if I was restoring her instead of working this as a preservation project. I could tear her down to the frame and go from there.  But the loss of history, her patina and scars earned thru four conflicts on as many continents would be a disservice to everything she represents and I knew when I recovered her in Africa in 2006,  that preservation was going to be my only course of action.  It's all good!!