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general discussion => ALL mechanical and technical related questions => Topic started by: mkoloc on August 23, 2020, 06:20:04 AM

Title: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on August 23, 2020, 06:20:04 AM
BLUF (Bottom Line Up Front) Need a new clutch!!  Thanks to all for the support, advice etc. I received regards the clutch on the Queen.  Grainy pics in my digital copies of the HT manuals left me a bit confused regards the access plate, and of course I way overthought the issue that and a lack of experience with this particular trany caused my some issues at the start.  But in the end all worked out.  Now to pull the trany!  Video on clutch adjustment and replacement of my PTO driveshaft seal.  Enjoy!

       https://youtu.be/VmELKY66nl8

Mark
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on August 24, 2020, 08:30:49 PM
Steve, appreciate the info you posted in the comment section of the video.  Makes sense regards the pilot bearing grease options.  Will use the zerk fitting under the access plate for the bearing.
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: RB-058 on August 26, 2020, 10:27:39 PM
Great video's Mark! Keep m coming!

Rob
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 02, 2020, 05:51:39 AM
Ready to drop the transfer case and trany today.  Had to pull my PTO as there is absolutely zero room to pull the trany back without the PTO hitting the cross member support bracket.  Will give me an opportunity to clean it up as the buildup of old grease, oil and dirt is pretty impressive and has been baked pretty hard by years of sitting in the desert.  The interior of the PTO and the gear set condition is incredible and looks like the day it was manufactured!

Transfer case is nice and clean as I had it out last year .. trany is a bit like the PTO on its bottom side but should clean up nicely.  I also pulled my emergency brake mechanism for cleanup and for some reason it's missing a zerk fitting on one arm.  Easy fix!

Pics to follow.
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 02, 2020, 02:54:39 PM
Mission accomplished .. but the clutch/pressure plate assembly is being stubborn ..am I missing something?  Tried to pry it out, but its like hitting the proverbial brick wall here?
Pics:

(https://i.postimg.cc/s1rfgDtM/IMG-20200902-101100.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/s1rfgDtM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/hJLwygMY/IMG-20200902-154806.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hJLwygMY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/p9CC5dsP/IMG-20200902-101120.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/p9CC5dsP)

(https://i.postimg.cc/T5LJsJfP/IMG-20200902-101030-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/T5LJsJfP)

(https://i.postimg.cc/mt7QFDrK/IMG-20200902-153858-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/mt7QFDrK)

(https://i.postimg.cc/1f1FPQKB/IMG-20200902-153846-1.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1f1FPQKB)

(https://i.postimg.cc/9wbCvZpv/IMG-20200902-122426.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/9wbCvZpv)

(https://i.postimg.cc/TKMvCkfp/IMG-20200902-102257.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/TKMvCkfp)

(https://i.postimg.cc/HcKhjxLV/IMG-20200902-101203.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HcKhjxLV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/wtjfVJy1/IMG-20200902-101230.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/wtjfVJy1)

Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: coreyelliott on September 02, 2020, 03:27:42 PM
Great job!  That's a lot of work in those pictures.  Those gears look great, too.  I don't think there is any special thing you need to do to get clutch assembly separated from the flywheel.  It's probably just stuck on there and needs a little "gentle" persuasion.

Corey
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: 8683jb on September 02, 2020, 09:03:02 PM
I have a 12-gauge tool which works on most stuck components. Clear the area first though.
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: spillmk1 on September 03, 2020, 05:19:16 AM
Yes....just stuck.
Keep at it.....and then it will fall on your foot when you're not paying attention.  ;)
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 03, 2020, 07:21:42 AM
Persuasion it is 12 gauge or any other means available  ;) ..
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 03, 2020, 04:37:13 PM
Only had a hour in the shop today, all spent trying to get my clutch broken loose.  No joy, so I'm going to put a little heat on the disk edge to see if that will crack her loose.   Will update tomorrow.
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: steve1973 on September 03, 2020, 04:45:40 PM
Hi Mark, Just remember the clutch fits inside the flywheel. Have you tried taping it with a hammer to break it free? I would try that and also try a slide hammer. Also, if you can somehow, put a mark on the clutch pressure plate and flywheel. The bolts are not evenly spaced so this will save you time trying to match everything up later when trying to put back together. I also have that alignment tool if you want to borrow it. Just send me an email or PM with your address and I can mail it out on Monday.

Steve A.
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 04, 2020, 05:07:12 AM
Steve, did the hammer thing as the 1st course of action .. my address is in my signature box and I would appreciate the use of the tool .. perplexed regards using a slide hammer .. where do I attach the hammer?  Maybe I'm looking at this incorrectly. Does the clutch package just pull off the back of the engine?  Thought that I just had to remove those bolts around the clutch and separate the housing from the the rest of it ... does the slide hammer attach to those bolt holes and I just need to work my way around the disk to pull it off?  Will go back thru the manual as I'm obviously missing something here.
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: Outsider on September 04, 2020, 02:37:22 PM
If there is a little bit of a lip of the clutch sticking over the flywheel you can pry gently on that working your way around, or you could possibly put a steel bar in the clutch and wiggle that around.

I would put some long bolts in the clutch in a couple of places to prevent it from falling when it comes loose!

Also if you take the blocks out between the throw out bearing and the clutch housing out you can get some spring pressure to help you pop it loose, but it makes it more difficult to reassemble.

Steve
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: yd328 on September 05, 2020, 10:00:03 AM
That’s a lot of work. The gears look to be in great shape. I second the long bolts in case that decides to jump out of there on you when you’re not ready for it.

Gary
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 05, 2020, 06:50:55 PM
Thanks for all the great advice .. going to remove my blocks and go from, there .. let's see how it goes
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: coreyelliott on September 05, 2020, 07:03:07 PM
Good luck!

Corey
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: emptyhead on September 06, 2020, 06:44:57 AM
Good luck with your project.just pulled the clutch and plate on my French rebuild engine and good thing the clutch disk was a little frozen to the flywheel.
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: yd328 on September 13, 2020, 05:09:02 AM
I have a clutch alignment tool I can send to you to use.

Gary
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 14, 2020, 08:36:47 AM
Thank you Gary ...will take you up on that as Steve as way more to stay up on then sending me his alignment tool ..

My address is in my signature block, and by all means, let me reimburse you for postage.   

We are in Florida arrived last night to a tropical storm on the verge of becoming a hurricane...and just got an automated call that we might have to evacuate our rented ocean front beach house ..so much for a sunny vacation  :o .. we have the travel insurance which would cover our loss of vacation, so that's good.

Must admit that watching the storm surge and the wind is somewhat mesmerizing... the house is built on pilings and sways just a bit, like being on a ship ... anyway we are safe and if need be are ready to head inland.  We have family in central Florida and they have already called and told us to head their way if need be.  All good, but what a challenging week with Jack and now this.  Been thinking about and praying for Steve and his situation in CA.  2020 has been a year like no other in my 65 years of being!  I pray it can only get better moving forward  :) ..
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 21, 2020, 07:58:17 AM
Paul, recieved the clutch allignment tool in the mail!!!  Thank you so much going to tear into my clutch today and get it off the track as we arrived home last night from our Florida trip. 

Will pick up a slidE hammer if a couple of the suggestions ive recieved from others dont pan out.  1st thing is tapping out my two wooden blocks and then trying some other pointers.  I'll get it off, no matter what :-). 
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: Smadge on September 21, 2020, 08:19:53 AM
Mark,

I used a crowbar to remove the wooden blocks, one side at a time, and they will fall right out.  Used a bar to put them back in as well.

Glad you received the alignment tool.

Paul
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 21, 2020, 08:59:59 PM
ALCON:  Success removing the clutch and pressure plate today.  Pulled my wood blocks, but did not seem to make a difference.  Used one of my bearing pullers and she popped loose.  Left a couple of bolts in loosely so everything would not drop out uncontroled.  Quite the snap when she popped loose  Clutch is worn, but it is worn evenly.  Pressure plate and ring gear surfaces are in great shape. 

I have one broken bolt to extract. A little heat and a vice grip should get the job done.

Am wondering how thick the new clutch linings should be.  Thinking about a 1/2" inch total considering the clutch adjustment figures.  Any input is greatly appreciated as I want to have new linings put on locally.

Some pics:

(https://i.postimg.cc/kVdz8g34/RIMG0005.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/kVdz8g34)

(https://i.postimg.cc/t7rKfbPS/RIMG0007.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/t7rKfbPS)

(https://i.postimg.cc/rzF6QsdR/RIMG0008.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/rzF6QsdR)

(https://i.postimg.cc/s1cTHJF3/RIMG0010.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/s1cTHJF3)

(https://i.postimg.cc/xc1twbYM/RIMG0011.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/xc1twbYM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SXB6jJwT/RIMG0014.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXB6jJwT)

(https://i.postimg.cc/7G1Kk3fM/RIMG0016.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/7G1Kk3fM)

(https://i.postimg.cc/2Lz281Wp/RIMG0017.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/2Lz281Wp)
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 22, 2020, 02:57:13 PM
Does anyone out there have a new clutch not yet installed that I could get the thickness measurements of the facings from?

Mark
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 22, 2020, 03:27:17 PM
THis may be the answer....

(https://i.postimg.cc/Z0j57NRp/20200922-172256.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Z0j57NRp)
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 25, 2020, 05:35:19 PM
OK. Figure I'm a fairly intelligent type, but reading my manuals its as clear as mud regards removing the throw out bearing!!!  Slipped off the retaining ring, drove out the copper sleeve inside the housing, but how the hell do you get the bearing sleeve out??  The book says soft hammer and a screw driver then what???  Thinking my cutting torch and then my 1911 for my depression ????. 

What am I missing?  Flywheel and pressure  plate are polished and look great and I pick up my re-faced clutch on Monday.  New pilot and throw out bearing should arrive Monday .. but I'll be standing here with my Schwant's in my hand and the old throw out bearing still in place.

Please help me in the name of humanity   ;D

Markus
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: Smadge on September 25, 2020, 07:56:21 PM
Mark,

I'll check my manuals in the morning.  I had no problem with mine, but it has been a while.

Paul
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 27, 2020, 09:17:37 AM
Thank you Paul..
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 27, 2020, 02:09:06 PM
Here's what I was up against, but have it figured out thank you Jon B!!  Thought drive train manual would have it all, but it turns out that the engine manual is the place to go regards the throwout bearing and the two C clips that hold the bearing in place.
Will provide update when I'm done.

(https://i.postimg.cc/SXvW9ZRF/IMG-20200927-151327.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXvW9ZRF)
(https://i.postimg.cc/N5cRR2sM/IMG-20200927-151302.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/N5cRR2sM)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SXvW9ZRF/IMG-20200927-151327.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXvW9ZRF)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XBwFT484/IMG-20200927-151334.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/XBwFT484)
(https://i.postimg.cc/fVMjQtpF/IMG-20200927-134550.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fVMjQtpF)
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on September 29, 2020, 12:55:43 PM
Success!!  Used the local machine shops press with all the goodies and the job is done.  Shot a video of the brearing replacement will post on the African Queen Halftrack YouTube channel shortly.  Just posted a video on transmission removal ... if your interested check it out.

(https://i.postimg.cc/0zBMKsfY/IMG-20200928-130911.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0zBMKsfY)

(https://i.postimg.cc/sQpvLZRm/IMG-20200928-130855.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/sQpvLZRm)
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: coreyelliott on September 29, 2020, 01:27:28 PM
Looks great!  I'll have to check out your latest video later this evening.  Did you ever get your clutch disc back from having it relined?

Corey
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: RB-058 on September 29, 2020, 02:15:29 PM
Great video again Mark!  Enjoyed it!  And it gave me a idea how the li lage look like inbetween the pto lever and the pto. Mine is missing and now I now how it looks like! Makes the search so much easier! Pulled my transmission last week so it was a feast of recognition!

Rob
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on October 09, 2020, 09:14:20 AM
Cory, it came back looking like new!  $34 @ Dayton Clutch, Dayton OH.
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on October 09, 2020, 09:19:34 AM
Ok, have my trany up and in, used a alignment tool for clutch etc.,  but I can't seem to close the gap of approx 1/2 inch between trany and bell housing!!
Is that normal?  Do I just need to use a few longer bolts (temporary) to close the gap?  Was thinking it just might be the shaft trying to fit into the new pilot bearing.  Any and all advise appreciated.
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: autocar925 on October 09, 2020, 10:08:21 AM
I've never installed the trans on a HT, but in general, never ever try to pull a trans into place by cranking on the bolts.  You are guaranteed to break something.  There is a reason it's not going in and brute force is not the answer.  I've found that even though an alignment tool is used, sometimes the clutch disc is still not perfectly centered and the input shaft pilot doesn't line up with the pilot bearing in the crankshaft.  In some cases, you can put guide bolts in place of the trans bolts and depress the clutch while wiggling the trans and it will slide in.  I don't know if this is possible with the HT.  I usually dry fit all the parts together before assembling and installing the trans because sometimes the parts don't like each other and it's better to find out before you try installing the trans. 
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: brit plumber on October 09, 2020, 11:52:38 AM
Was the bushing reamed to size after fitting?

Also try turning the engine manually just a little bit and try again. If that doesn’t work, turn the engine a little more and try again. If that doesn’t work I’m out of ideas.
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on October 09, 2020, 12:07:01 PM
All good ..l just used a couple of longer bolts and it pulled right up ...BP, your suggestions would have been my next move :) .. anyway I have company that just arrived for the weekend, so transfercase and PTO will have to wait thru the weekend ...
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on October 11, 2020, 07:05:40 PM
Company left early today so I cleaned up and painted zerk and oil fittings.  Installed PTO, clutch linkage, timing cover and moved transfer case into position to install tomorrow.  Pic of afternoons progress:

(https://i.postimg.cc/0MP8cQnL/PXL-20201011-204028964.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/0MP8cQnL)

(https://i.postimg.cc/B8WZPNKZ/PXL-20201011-204112852.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/B8WZPNKZ)

(https://i.postimg.cc/23C6xHXV/PXL-20201011-204054791.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/23C6xHXV)

(https://i.postimg.cc/KRz861bb/PXL-20201011-204103162.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/KRz861bb)
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: coreyelliott on October 15, 2020, 08:38:58 PM
Mark,  just watched your latest transmission video.  Great work as always!  I'm always looking forward to watch the videos you post.

 I have a question.  In the video you mention setting your original clutch setting (where you remove the holder and spin the large adjusting ring to adjust the spacing).  I've looked at other posts and read and reread the manuals many times and it still doesn't make sense to me.  Can you explain it in your own words?  I know there are clearances (3/8', 1/2"?) but I'm just not 100% sure where to make that measurement.  I don't think our clutch is ideally adjusted and a verification measurement would sure make me feel better.

Thanks!

Corey
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on October 16, 2020, 08:29:55 PM
Corey,  when I had the pressure plate apart I adjusted the ring down....after removing the snap ring and the 2 C clips that hold the throw out bearing shaft in, I pulled the springs (fingers) and both coil springs out .. I adjusted the ring (according to the manual) to the point that it was 1/2  inch below the top of the casting that holds the pressure plate clutch facing (the one that mounts to the pressure plate with 4 springs) that is supposed to be lowest setting for the ring on a new clutch. I noticed that when I did that, the adjusting ring was bottomed out in the pressure plate.  Acording to the manual, this setting for a new clutch will save some ass pain regards clutch adjustment.  I'm going to take my track out for a test run this weekend to test it out, especially the clutch adjustment .. will update my progress.
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on October 16, 2020, 08:40:54 PM
Complete except for floor pans.

(https://i.postimg.cc/c66dJBph/PXL-20201016-184615388.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/c66dJBph)

(https://i.postimg.cc/CRCg2P8h/PXL-20201016-184657929.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/CRCg2P8h)

(https://i.postimg.cc/SXQwvyqd/PXL-20201016-212904714.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/SXQwvyqd)
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: mkoloc on October 18, 2020, 12:34:53 AM
Did not get out for a drive today, but backed her out of and back into the shop and the clutch felt great! Just wanted to thank all of you who offered to borrow me an alignment tool!  The one that Paul sent was perfect regards lining up the clutch and pressure plate for install, and trying to do the trany install without one would be very challenging!

We are looking to transport on Oct 26 to the museum so lots of little stuff to finish up.  Am not going to display my real weapons so I ordered some display weapons from IMA.  2 Carbines, 2 Garrands, and a Thompson.  Will snap some pics when they arrive and will do a critique as they are metal and wood and the actions are supposed to function.

Mark
Title: Re: African Queen Clutch Project
Post by: coreyelliott on October 19, 2020, 01:22:46 PM
Corey,  when I had the pressure plate apart I adjusted the ring down....after removing the snap ring and the 2 C clips that hold the throw out bearing shaft in, I pulled the springs (fingers) and both coil springs out .. I adjusted the ring (according to the manual) to the point that it was 1/2  inch below the top of the casting that holds the pressure plate clutch facing (the one that mounts to the pressure plate with 4 springs) that is supposed to be lowest setting for the ring on a new clutch. I noticed that when I did that, the adjusting ring was bottomed out in the pressure plate.  Acording to the manual, this setting for a new clutch will save some ass pain regards clutch adjustment.  I'm going to take my track out for a test run this weekend to test it out, especially the clutch adjustment .. will update my progress.

Thank you for the info!  Every bit of advice and information I get helps paint a better picture.

Corey