Author Topic: Decipher hood numbers  (Read 6218 times)

KC

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Decipher hood numbers
« on: May 08, 2012, 08:59:21 PM »
Ok, I need some help on this one. How do you decipher the proper hood numbers for halftracks? I have the original manufacture serial# 275XXX & Ord serial# 97XX for the frame used on our M2A1 build. While reading the info posted on G503 halftrack database thread, do you add the Ord number to another number to arrive at the hood number? The bumper used on our M2A1 was salvaged from a M3 or M16 and the hood number 405XXXX is stamped on the co-drivers side. I was hoping to use that hood number but I'm unsure if that number is within the range of an M2A1 that was up dated from an M2. Our serial number puts our M2 around mid 1943 which is consistent with a M2 later rebuilt into a M2A1
I appreciate help on this subject. KC

steve-0

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2012, 11:18:04 PM »
im not sure if this is what you are asking for but when they converted the m2 to the m2a1 they stamped the hood number in the bogie casting


Dinadin

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2012, 07:21:36 AM »
There is a formula for calulating the hood number, but I believe it changes from model to model.  It is a particular number plus either the Ord or Serial number, I cann't remember which one off the top of my head.  Joe DeMarco, on the G503, has posted the formula on the HT database thread before. 

That is the first time I have seen the number stamped on the bogie casing.  I had heard about it for years, but never seen one.  Then again around here I have only seen one restored M2A1 and maybe two stripped down M2s.
Rich

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke

Schafer's Folly - Halftrack Restoration

col.halftrack

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2012, 08:22:29 AM »
 KC,
 Your M2 was built by White in 1943 and with the help of Joe D. we have determined for the PO your M2 was part of the key number would be 4014933. So add 4014933 to your ord # and you should have the correct hood number for your M2. Hope this helps.
 Kevin
1941 White M2
1942 White M4A1 was M4
1942 Autocar M2A1
1942 Autocar M3-75
1943 White M13 rebuilt as M16
1943 Diamond T M3A1

andy

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2012, 07:18:40 PM »
What is the formula?
My white m4a1 has a frame number of 272422. I have 5619 stamped 3 times on my boogie support? Looking for my hood number too



Andy
1943 M4A1 (restored to M2A1)

steve-0

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2012, 09:09:01 PM »
the m2A1 is the only one i have seen with the hood number stamped on the bogie casting.  the m16 has it stamped on the tip of the front frame and the m16A2 also put them on the front bumper. the only info on the formula is posted here
http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=84473

col.halftrack

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2012, 07:37:55 AM »
 Steve,
 I have yet to see a bogie stamp in person as well. I have an Autocar roller model with a hood number stamp on the LH frt bumper. It seems that these stamps were only used if the track was going through a factory rebuild or model change (i.e. M2 to M2A1, M13 to M16, M3 to M16A1).
 Andy,
 M4 halftracks are the rarest M# halftrack with only 1172 total M4 and M4A1s produced. There are few survivors and even fewer have the data plate. All were built by White and they were very random in their frame number to ord#. The first batch of M4s (572) all appear to have frame numbers in the 250xxx range. And all the M4A1 (600) I have seen have frame #s in the 282xxx-283xxx range. Your frame number seems to miss both groups but since White never seemed to care it is possible they used this frame in the last group of 600. The ord# stamping on the bogie sppt suggests a rebuild at some point but I have found nothing showing M4s being rebuilt to M2s. I am in the same frustrating spot as my M4 had no data plate. My frame #250322 fits nicely in the early M4 group but only one data plate from this group has been confirmed. If you discover any additional M4 data plates please forward the info to me.
1941 White M2
1942 White M4A1 was M4
1942 Autocar M2A1
1942 Autocar M3-75
1943 White M13 rebuilt as M16
1943 Diamond T M3A1

andy

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2012, 07:46:30 AM »
Hey Col. Halftrack,  My serial number puts me at the end of 43, and that date certainly falls into the M4A1s. I just removed the frame z brackets (riveted) and the 1/4 top plate welded to the frame over the frame connecter with the 3 large holes. Its definitely an M4A1. Here is a pics of the top plate (with post war stuff welded on), and look below you see the the Z bracket support.

1943 M4A1 (restored to M2A1)

iron bender

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2012, 07:19:16 AM »
Col. Halftrack, my m4 has it's original "A1" overstamped dataplate and it's Ord 66. My vehicle has the mine racks, pedestal lights, all the a1 updates. I believe the last time my vehicle was overhauled was in December 51 as it has a Texarkana rebuild tag on the block.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 07:21:16 AM by iron bender »

col.halftrack

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2012, 01:37:22 PM »
 Andy,
 Thanks for the photo. I would like one more though. The rear crossmember looks like it has a plate on top at each corner. Does this plate have two approx 5/8 holes that have nothing to bolt to? These might be M4 bipod supports. If so we know it was built as an M4. The M4A1 would not have these and they were not typically removed when converted to A1 config.
 I dug out alot of old papers on halftracks and I am seeing a couple others in your serial range that line up. The possible ord number stamped in the bogie crab really throws me though. Possibly the crab was from another halftrack. This number was usually placed here in a rebuild and since White only built less than 1200 units with a starting number of 1 OR 2 it seems unlikely that the ord number would have been that high. The highest number set I have is frame number 281853 as ord number 1707. That said your frame number does in fact fall into a group of numbers I had forgot about. I have 272339 and 272454 both being M4s and your frame number fits in between. Unfortunately none of these tracks had a confirmable ord number. I have a note that a photo showed hood numbers around 4060xxx for your group of frame numbers; but I didn't keep a source. The lack of original data plates to confirm ord numbers and White's lack of issuing ord numbers consecutively with frame numbers continues to prevent a exact hood number formula.
 ironbender,
You have a rare piece that being the data plate. Too bad your hood number was lost as I remember you saying the blaster got to them before you did.
 If you can post a clear pic of the plate I would like to see the overstamp. I have a White M13 overstamped with 16.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 01:41:43 PM by col.halftrack »
1941 White M2
1942 White M4A1 was M4
1942 Autocar M2A1
1942 Autocar M3-75
1943 White M13 rebuilt as M16
1943 Diamond T M3A1

iron bender

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2012, 01:40:43 PM »
No prob. I'll get it tonight.

andy

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2012, 02:10:19 PM »
Here is a link to my photobucket. You should get all the pics you need there. There was a data plate (pic on photobucket), but it had ord 533? rest was blank which leeds me to believe the data plate wasn't right for my track.

http://s1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/isleofskyealpacas/M2A1/

LMK if you need any more info.

This was also a southern parts sold halftrack as there were their plates on it

Andy


Andy,
 Thanks for the photo. I would like one more though. The rear crossmember looks like it has a plate on top at each corner. Does this plate have two approx 5/8 holes that have nothing to bolt to? These might be M4 bipod supports. If so we know it was built as an M4. The M4A1 would not have these and they were not typically removed when converted to A1 config.
 I dug out alot of old papers on halftracks and I am seeing a couple others in your serial range that line up. The possible ord number stamped in the bogie crab really throws me though. Possibly the crab was from another halftrack. This number was usually placed here in a rebuild and since White only built less than 1200 units with a starting number of 1 OR 2 it seems unlikely that the ord number would have been that high. The highest number set I have is frame number 281853 as ord number 1707. That said your frame number does in fact fall into a group of numbers I had forgot about. I have 272339 and 272454 both being M4s and your frame number fits in between. Unfortunately none of these tracks had a confirmable ord number. I have a note that a photo showed hood numbers around 4060xxx for your group of frame numbers; but I didn't keep a source. The lack of original data plates to confirm ord numbers and White's lack of issuing ord numbers consecutively with frame numbers continues to prevent a exact hood number formula.
 ironbender,
You have a rare piece that being the data plate. Too bad your hood number was lost as I remember you saying the blaster got to them before you did.
 If you can post a clear pic of the plate I would like to see the overstamp. I have a White M13 overstamped with 16.
1943 M4A1 (restored to M2A1)

iron bender

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2012, 03:26:38 PM »
Here's my data plate.

iron bender

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2012, 03:31:19 PM »
And while on the subject, is this an original data plate?

col.halftrack

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Re: Decipher hood numbers
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2012, 08:21:00 AM »
 Andy your photos show the frame mounts that supported the 81mm bipod so this might have been a M4 in the beginning (still trying to figure out where the M4 stopped and the M4A1 started). You said the dataplate was stamped 533? does the (?) denote an unreadable fourth digit or just that the 533 is hard to make out. An ord # of 533 is much more likely to be correct than the 5619 stamping from the crab sppt.
 ironbender thanks for the dataplate photo. As for the M3 plate (unstamped): I have some of those and it seems these have been found affixed to all models of M3 vehicles. White made a 100+ M3s and converted some T30 75mm GMC into M3s so maybe thats why these were produced. They seem to appear on Autocar and Diamond Ts as well.
1941 White M2
1942 White M4A1 was M4
1942 Autocar M2A1
1942 Autocar M3-75
1943 White M13 rebuilt as M16
1943 Diamond T M3A1