halftrackinfo
classified ads => halftracks and parts for sale => Topic started by: col.halftrack on January 10, 2019, 09:08:12 AM
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I am preparing an order for New production 2019 Half-Trac Tracks. These are the same tracks that had been previously sold by Gary's Halftracks of Illinois. They have all new materials ,stronger cables than the originals, new hardware and new improved track guides. Tracks were tested with hundreds of miles on roads, rocks, gravel, asphalt. The 1mm wear indicator on the track surface is still there. The tracks will come with two drive axle flange hub assemblies to replace the old flanges on your drive axle. Meaning one inner and one outer drive axle flange per track. These tracks have an improved track guide made with a higher grade of steel. Tracks are crated in pairs.
PrePaid Orders prior to 15FEB2019 will receive a discounted price $2,750.00 each. FOB Great Bend, Kansas
I will also be re-stocking NOS bogie wheels and idler wheel flanges. If interested please ask. Track buyers get first option on bogies and flanges.
kplockwood@cox.net
Col. Halftrack
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Email sent.
Thanks!!
Keith
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Excellent News Kevin!
Don G.
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is Gary involved in any way with this?
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Gary H. has retired. As far as I know. I was contacted by the manufacturer and asked to become the American/Canadian distributor. So this is 100% Col. Half-Trac's operation.
Thanks for asking.
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Great news, very exciting! ;D
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Kevin - Would they be shipped on an open pallet or a crate? Do you know the approximate dimensions and weight of the shipment for two tracks? Thanks.
Jon
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Assuming !!!! LOL The manufacturer does not surprise me they should arrive as a set in a crate with the drive flanges banded the lid. I believe the weight was told to me to be 1300lbs.
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Just to get a rough guesstimate on freight from Great Bend to here, did they say the dimensions?
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gary is not retired he just has someone else setting up the sales
he did not sell his inventory to the new seller
I know you purchased his transmission parts
don't let me down by misrepresenting this
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Not trying to mis-represent at all. Retired to me means - no longer active in the day to day running of a business. Many business owners "retire" assigning staff, family, or new buy-ins the position of CEO etc. I have no understanding of Gary's level of retirement. I do know that he sold me all his drive-train parts plus some other odds and ends. So in the ORD9 I got Groups: part of 200, part of 400, 700, 800, 900, 1000, 1100, most of 1200, part of 1300, part of 1400, part of 1600.
As for the tracks and flanges Gary had sold all of his inventory and has no desire to re-stock. The European owner of these tracks called me and asked that I take over the North American distribution. I will try to get crate dimensions / weight as soon as possible.
My interest here is to simply keep our Half-Tracs operational.
Thanks for the forum and allowing me to clarify some of this.
Kevin
kplockwood@cox.net
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thanks for clearing that up
good luck with your sales
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Is a new drive sprocket or whatever Gary was suggesting to get along with the tracks, still a suggestion for these tracks? If that makes any sense.
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As far as I know; no drive sprockets were ever planned to be a part the track "package". Going forward; they are definitely not a part of the package. I believe early thoughts were: to assure a successful fit and long term track life it would be beneficial/smart to run new track on new drive flanges. I have no way of knowing how many of these tracks have been installed on old or new drive flanges. Any half-trac owners out there with some experience would be welcome to report.
All the best!
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I measured some of the reproduction flanges and they where 1/4" in diameter smaller
the sprockets where the same
they may have made a new run of tracks that does not require the new flanges
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So that would mean that you would get a somewhat larger "bite" on the sprocket, and give a minimal change to the overall gearing.
I know it's been speculated before, but I still wonder what the rationale is for this change?
Is there a larger aperture in the track that this is compensating for?
hmmmm. curious.
I measured some of the reproduction flanges and they where 1/4" in diameter smaller
the sprockets where the same
they may have made a new run of tracks that does not require the new flanges
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Maybe the track is 1/8” thicker than original and to keep the same gear ratio, the flanges are ¼” smaller in diameter?
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if the flanges aren't the exact correct diameter for the tracks the tracks will start hopping over the sprockets
which is why many have speculated that the tracks where made wrong and only work with the new smaller flanges
im sure Kevin will inform us when he finds out why they where needed and if they still are.
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Don't have any personal experience so I am talking theoretical here. There is a certain radius at which the sprocket matches the designed pitch of the tracks perfectly. The flanges are what holds the track at the correct radius so the teeth of the sprocket match the pitch of the tracks. The teeth on the sprocket of coarse are further apart at the tips of the teeth and closer at the root, this is why it is important to have flanges that are the correct diameter. If the flange is too big the track will be pulled at the bottom of the wrap but held back at the top, this would not be good, if the flange is small the sprocket will be pulling in the center of the track wrap with clearance at the beginning and end of the wrap of the track, this would not be harmful. This may explain why the new flanges are small if that is the case.
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all valid points and good discussion!
I got a kick out of this photo on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=776473056038234&set=pcb.1190937114395687&type=3&theater&ifg=1
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Hal-Trac-ers,
While I certainly appreciate the discussion and would, and have, welcomed any reviews of these tracks. Even prior to my involvement in importing these. I must say; the Europeans have posted several videos both on and off road showing these tracks in use. I have several texts from users of these tracks in the states; all favorable. To my knowledge there have been no complaints made either in Europe or N.America. They have been sold now for four years. Hundreds of sets. While some of these sets may be still in the crate as spares I am confident that we are talking about 50 plus half-tracs some of which have been ran pretty hard and no issues reported.
I have a limited knowledge as to casting of the drive flanges but I do know that castings in general can vary in the shrinkage during the cooling process. I would be willing to bet that during the original production there could have been quite a bit of variance. Then consider the track manufacture and we can also assume that not every track was the same length or thickness. Just think of the difference in ratio produced by running a new WW2 track and, perhaps even on the same vehicle, running a track down to the crossbars on the opposite side. Perhaps a 2" difference.
I have been fortunate in that I bought many sets of track long ago out of a old business. So I cannot speak to these tracks personally, I look forward to the opportunity to run a set of these myself. I remember when the IZZY tracks ran out and prices went to over 9k for a pair of track. Thank goodness there is a source for dependable tracks.
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shipping crate is 36" wide x 31" tall from bottom skid to top of crate x 69 1/2" long
both tracks inside with 4 drive sprocket flanges
NEW Flanges are 21-1/8" diameter
(originals are 21-3/8")
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I have a limited knowledge as to casting of the drive flanges but I do know that castings in general can vary in the shrinkage during the cooling process. I would be willing to bet that during the original production there could have been quite a bit of variance.
the flanges are cast then machined to the correct diameter so shrinkage is not a factor
wear on the outside of the track does not affect the geometry of the sprocket and flange.
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NEW Flanges are 21-1/8" diameter
(originals are 21-3/8")
So they wanted to change the geometry for some reason on the new tracks.
Steve
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As I speculated when the tracks first came out, the tracks are most likely made incorrectly. The pitch diameter of the sprocket must match the pitch of the tracks(the distance between each crossbar). The pitch of the sprocket is determined by the diameter of the flange. As the flange gets smaller, the pitch gets smaller. I think the pitch of the new tracks ended up too small, probably because an old track was copied and the rubber had shrunk. The new track was made the same size as the shrunken old track so therefore the pitch was too small(or else they just screwed up the design). The smaller new flanges will have a shorter pitch to match the shortened new track pitch. The molds can’t be modified or changed to correct the problem, you must scrap them and make new ones. The molds are very expensive so they won’t be scrapped. Cheaper to make new flanges and throw them in with the deal. It means you can’t ever use new tracks with old flanges or vice versa
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mfrance: Thanks for the dimensions. I am attempting to confirm with the manufacturer that they will be crated similarly. Just don't want a surprise change up.
Others: I would think that the outside diameter would indeed effect the geometry. That is why you should not run 9.00 x 20s on a half-trac that was intended to run 8.25 x 20s. My point was that you are overthinking this because an original track can wear both on the inner surface and outer surface far more than 1/4"
If a shrunk track was used for a mold, the track would be thinner so one would have needed to make a LARGER drive flange to make up for a thinner track. The new track may indeed be made thicker due to the desire to increase there load rating or wear.
Last: I think the success of this track on vehicles that routinely run 30mph over all terrain surfaces should be the focus. Speculating on how the ship floats or sinks is fine but if a change improves a design and is itself proven over time I am good with that. The Israeli's changed the design of this track and most feel that it was for the better. As long as the track performs well and retains the look of WW2 style track I am thrilled. I have ran lots of original track from the forties and it certainly will not maintain road speed without failing due to its age.
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Just for clarification, the issue is not shrinkage in the thickness, it is shrinkage in the length. The rubber shrinks equally in all directions. The track is roughly 100 times longer than it is thick, so the thickness shrinkage is essentially nothing compared to the length shrinkage. The inside of the track doesn't wear much since it runs on the bogies and there is no relative motion(grinding or slippage) between the flanges and the track. The track wear occurs on the outside of the track where it runs against the road and doesn't have anything to do with pitch diameter, so the pitch stays the same over the life of the track.
My intent was not to argue whether the new tracks or old tracks are better. There have been continuing questions as to why new flanges are needed and I thought I would throw my 2 cents in as to the most likely reason for this.
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I'm just glad we have new tracks to keep this hobby going, thank you to those who worked diligently to get these tracks to market so we are all not sitting around with expensive yard art.
Thank you for even taking on this as being a U.S distributor..
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I'm just glad we have new tracks to keep this hobby going, thank you to those who worked diligently to get these tracks to market so we are all not sitting around with expensive yard art.
Thank you for even taking on this as being a U.S distributor..
YES!
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After thinking about my question on the track thickness being a possible factor, it came to me that the thickness of the track has no effect on the gear ratio since the flange runs on the inside of the track. The diameter of the flange itself is the only thing that would affect the relationship of the rear and front differential gear ratios. In this case the difference between the diameter of the original and the new flanges is just over 1% - pretty negligible. And as Kevin stated, the difference in wear between the tracks from side to side can be way over that, and certainly tire wear can as well. In any case, as others have said it’s great to have new tracks coming available! Thanks Kevin.
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86, you are correct. Track wear side to side is not very important because the rear end has an open differential which compensates for different track speeds. Also, front and rear effective gear ratio(gear ratio and tire wear) mismatches within reason are not too important either if the halftrack is driven properly. On pavement driving, the front axle should be disengaged so it is free wheeling. If engaged on pavement, the drivetrain will “wind up” and something will break. When the front axle is engaged off-road, there is always slippage so the axles won’t bind(wind) up. The only thing that is important is to match the pitch of the track and sprocket. Think of trying to put a small chain(the track) onto a sprocket with big teeth-doesn’t work. As long as you use the new flanges with the new track you should be good to go.
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there was a conversation on facebook that I had deleted this post..
it has never been deleted
at the time i searched the main page and the "whats on your mind" section and didn't see it so mistakenly confirmed this
good luck with your sales Kevin
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Thanks Steve. I appreciate your forum it has done alot for the Half-Trac world.
All the best.
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Lockwood's Warhorses:
Only a few days left to reserve a set in this shipment at the reduced price. Lock in this price now and you are basically saving enough to pay for your shipping cost to your location and getting dibs on the NOS bogie rollers that are coming with the tracks. Also remember that the purchase of a set of tracks from now through the end of my winter sale 1APRIL2019 qualifies you for discounts on most parts in my Common Parts List for the Half-Trac.
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OK, I'm a newbie to the field and need to know how to determine if I need the new bogies and flanges? Thanks in advance.
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Post some photos of the bogies and flanges so we can take a look.
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I have a roller photo. But it is a roller so? LOL I will try to post asap. To put it here I will need to upload to a site. If you want email for photos kplockwood@cox.net
To the flange question. A good flange should have around a 1/4" of wall thickness for the track guides to rub against. Often times mis aligned track will wear the flange completely away. I do not have a good photo example of this but will look for one.
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Hi Kevin, I'm glad you've taken over as the US Track distributor. Since I missed the Feb 2019 pre-order deadline what is the total price now for the crate that includes the two tracks and four flanges?