halftrackinfo
general discussion => what's on your mind? => Topic started by: JamieM5halftrack on October 10, 2023, 11:53:43 AM
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Hi Guys,
Is it just me or are others having issues with newly manufactured tracks?
I’m not naming names or manufacturers, I would like to get a bigger picture to see if it’s just me?
Since fitting a set of new manufactured tracks in April 2022 I have had nothing but problems with them.
Unlike most halftrack owners, I drive my halftrack everywhere and have done 1200 miles on the road since April 2022.
In this time I have had issues with guides and now the rubber itself.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.
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What are the issues with the rubber? Is it wear, cracking, both? 1200 miles in a year and a half is a pretty respectable amount of driving. What do you typically drive on? I drive mostly on asphalt and it's pretty rough on my late-'80s Israeli tracks. The faces of my mud flaps have a thin layer of black powder thrown onto them from the tracks. The rubber on the lugs on the sides of mine are pretty well chipped in a lot of places from driving it off road, which I expect. I don't know how the Israeli material compares to the new tracks, though. Jon
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Hi Jon,
Thanks for your reply.
1200 miles is a hell of a lot of miles for a halftrack, especially in the timescale.
I am mostly driving on asphalt/tarmac roads at 35/40 MPH and stopping every hour or so just to have a check on the tracks and the guides.
On my last trip out which was around 30 miles I could smell rubber burning.
When I pulled over there was smoke coming out of the side of the track and melted rubber on the guides.
I gave them a few days to cool and now there is a hole on the inside of the track about 2” by 1” and 1/4” deep. The track tread has also deformed which makes me think the rubber is delaminating inside the track.
I have gone back to the manufacturer to try and get some kind of feedback but I have had nothing and this was 2/3 weeks ago now.
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I'd think that's certainly a material defect. Wear is one thing, but they shouldn't ignite! They sure wouldn't have used such a track when the half-track was in service. Sorry for your trouble with the supplier. Please keep us all posted as to their response/remedy. Best of luck! Jon
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Hi Jon,
Thanks for your support, I will keep you updated on progress.
Currently I’m stuck with a halftrack I can’t use which kind of defeats the object of fitting brand new tracks!
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Now that I made the brilliant observation above, do you think one of the components in your undercarriage may have been hot enough to burn the track in that spot after it was parked? That seems more likely than the track having an isolated bad spot.
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Hi Jon,
I don’t think anything in the running gear has got hot enough to do any damage.
It had a complete new set of road wheels, bearings and seals when I restored it.
There are no signs of leaking oil or grease out of the hubs and the rubbers are all still intact.
But a very good suggestion.
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It was just a thought I had after I immediately condemned the track. Is it feasible to drive it a short distance and check temps around the undercarriage with a temp gun? My first thought is a top roller.
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That wouldn’t be a bad thing to try out. I am open to any ideas or suggestions.
The thing I’m worried about is if the track is starting to delaminate from the inside out, I don’t know how much longer it’s going to last?
I mean do I continue driving and see if it goes bang?
I have already had a 1960s track snap on the road, that was a frightening experience in itself.
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I think breaking a track at 30 would be spectacular, at the least. Even worse if it happened in traffic. Whatever you decide to do with the current track, you still have to find & fix the cause of its damage. Best case is that it's something on the undercarriage that you can fix/replace and the integrity of the track hasn't been diminished so you can run it out. I don't know how you determine that. If you think the cables inside haven't been compromised, it might be easier to decide. It might shed a little rubber but shouldn't break. Maybe someone else on here has had some similar experience and can advise. Good luck and please let us know what you find out either way.
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I think the seller should take care of that. Their delaying shows bad faith in their business practices. It’s not hard to figure out who the seller is. There’s only 2 on the planet, and one has already chimed in.
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I absolutely agree if it turns out the problem is the track and not something on the half-track that caused it. In that case, I'd be on the seller with both feet until they made it right. Either way, no response by the seller is unacceptable. I'm hoping he'll post the seller's response so we'll all know who and how they handled it. Good or bad.
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Is this the track that is provided with new drive flanges? If so did you install them?
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Yes, the tracks came with new drive sprockets and flanges.
Yes, they were fitted to my halftrack when the new tracks were installed.
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The story so far goes I bought a new set of tracks due to breaking one on the return from a road run in 2021. I had done over 500 miles on the tracks and being 1960s dated, it was only a matter of time before they gave up, and gave up they did.
We bought the new set of tracks in March 2022. I first contacted the manufacturer on 5th of April 2022 regarding issues with the guides. I had a guide come off and go through the track on the first 20 mile trip I done with my halftrack. When you dipped the clutch, there was hardly any free running, it was grinding to a halt and the noise was terrible. I also found when backing up on left or right lock, the running gear would try jumping over the guides lifting the whole halftrack. I sent pictures and videos of the issues and the response was my halftrack was worn and it had nothing to do with the tracks. No I wasn’t doing this to be a pain, I was doing it to help and work with the manufacturer to solve the problem. I then explained that I restored my halftrack from the ground up over 13 years with all new bearings, seals, runner gear wheels etc so I knew there was no issues with my halftrack. I had also done 500 miles on my old tracks with no issues. In fairness to the manufacturer he did supply me with some new guides to replace the one that got damaged while going through the suspension. In the end, as I work as a design and development engineer as well as a manual machine operator, I solved the issue myself with so experimenting.
On the 25th of September this year I contacted the manufacturer with the issue I have now. The messages have been read but as of yet I have had no response. I have sent pictures of my findings and again was happy to work with the manufacturer but how long do you give someone before enough is enough? I know if it was a part I manufactured that didn’t fit or was faulty then I would want it back to sort the problem out straight away.
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I think you have been very patient and kind to the manufacturer. Maybe it’s time to name names. Others in the hobby need to know.
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I’m still not going to name names yet. As much as it’s a pain in the backside and I feel as if I have been patient throughout, I still have a problem with these tracks that needs sorting.
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It's decent of you not to name anyone until you're sure the problem is with their tracks and if it is, to give them a chance to respond and offer a remedy, but if they've read your complaints and after two or three weeks haven't even answered, that's an integrity issue that's even worse than the track issue, in my opinion. Their silence speaks volumes and I hope they'll step up and address your complaints and not continue to just blow you off. If they don't, then I agree with Jesse about broadcasting it to prevent someone else getting burned. I sure wouldn't want to do business with someone like that. It's a ton of money to spend on something with no customer support.
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In the end, as I work as a design and development engineer as well as a manual machine operator, I solved the issue myself with so experimenting.
What was the solution to the first problem you were working on? Regarding the new problem, the hot spot is just on one side?
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I solved the first issue by machining all of my old guides from the broken track and the spare track I had and fitted them to the new track. The original guides will not fit the new tracks without modification. When you compare the original guides with the new reproduction ones they are nowhere near the same.
The hot spot is on/in 1 track only. I have spoken to someone who has experienced the same issue years ago with a set of Isreal tracks. We don’t know the outcome as the tracks were worn anyway so they got changes for a new set.
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The original guides have a 5/8” diameter machined hole in the centre with a counterbore to locate the spring washer. The original guides are also shaped slightly to give you a one point of contact.
The reproduction guides have no 5/8” diameter machined hole, the holes are cast meaning they are not round nor are they tight fit on the stud. I measured some and the holes were measuring up to 3/4” diameter in places. The counterbore for the spring washer is also absent so the nut and washer is never clamping down on a flat face. This I believe is why the guides keep coming loose. The shape of the reproduction guides are also all flat sides and not curved as per the originals so the friction involved is much greater.
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I'm sorry you're dealing with those issues. Tracks should last longer than 1,200 miles. So far my new US tracks have about 150 miles on them, and I drive mostly on roads with some off roads, and I've seen a wear of .006 inches or 6 thousands in those miles. At this rate, I'll be up in the 3,200-3500 miles with the tread depth on mine which are slightly better than originals and significantly better than other reproduction tracks.
If there's any information or help I can offer, please don't hesitate to reach out.
Good luck and hopefully you get a positive remedy.
Jon
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Definitely sounds like a manufacturing defect. Even if most of the the tracks that have been made aren't experiencing issues, there can still be exceptions. I think the manufacturer should be asking for that track back so they can analyze it for quality control issues.
Where else have you put this out? This forum is pretty small, and a lot of users have migrated over to the FB "White Half Track Enthusiasts" group and/or also use the "Tracked" section of the G503.com forum. It certainly wouldn't hurt to put this on multiple social sites to get the broadest dissemination...not only for other owners but maybe to encourage better communication and resolution from the manufacturer.
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I'm sorry you're dealing with those issues. Tracks should last longer than 1,200 miles. So far my new US tracks have about 150 miles on them, and I drive mostly on roads with some off roads, and I've seen a wear of .006 inches or 6 thousands in those miles. At this rate, I'll be up in the 3,200-3500 miles with the tread depth on mine which are slightly better than originals and significantly better than other reproduction tracks.
If there's any information or help I can offer, please don't hesitate to reach out.
Good luck and hopefully you get a positive remedy.
Jon
Jon, I heard rumour that you may be exporting to the U.K. in the future, is that correct?
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One question ? Make sure your running track in forward direction as guides are 1 direction so your not running it backwards at high speeds .. just something to check as tracks are directional
Have seen others put tracks on backwards not realizing the simple ...
Bummer for the issues if its something else ...
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I'm sorry you're dealing with those issues. Tracks should last longer than 1,200 miles. So far my new US tracks have about 150 miles on them, and I drive mostly on roads with some off roads, and I've seen a wear of .006 inches or 6 thousands in those miles. At this rate, I'll be up in the 3,200-3500 miles with the tread depth on mine which are slightly better than originals and significantly better than other reproduction tracks.
If there's any information or help I can offer, please don't hesitate to reach out.
Good luck and hopefully you get a positive remedy.
Jon
Jon, I heard rumour that you may be exporting to the U.K. in the future, is that correct?
Hello! Yes that is correct. I will be putting a post up soon about it!
Jon
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Track update!
Good news! After talking to the UK distributor of the tracks for a while the tracks are finally going back to the manufacturer for analysing to determine what the fault is.
The UK distributor has also agreed on inspection of my tracks that there is a fault with the track and has nothing to do with my halftrack, the way they have been fitted or the way they have been used.
Hopefully I will hear something in the new year and decide where to go from there.
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Good to hear! Even major tire manufacturers have quality assurance issues that lead to tire failure now and then, so to finally acknowledge that there may have been a fabrication issue with one track is commendable. We need a continued source of replacement tracks, whether it's Stateside or Europe based, so I'm glad they are taking an interest in discovering the issue to hopefully prevent any future failures.
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Track Update:
I appear to be getting one step forward and six steps back.
I have been told after dropping the tracks back to the UK supplier in December last year that they are still in the same place I left them and the manufacturer has made no attempt to collect them.
The UK supplier and myself has contacted the manufacturer on many occasions since they were dropped back to the UK supplier, I get no response at all and the UK supplier is not getting much response either.
I still have no tracks and the show season is approaching very shortly and I don’t know where to turn or what to do next.
I have already paid £7,500 on a set of tracks that are falling apart and sat in a yard somewhere. I can’t afford another set until the issues with this set is resolved.
Needless to say I am not very pleased to say the least but I can’t rant too much until the issue with these tracks are resolved one way or another. I would also like to highlight that the UK supplier has been brilliant and is trying his best to get this issue resolved.
I would like to give this advice though, if you are having issues with tracks and you are told by the manufacturer that you are the only one, you are not. I know a few people using these tracks and they are experiencing the same issues I have and these people were all told the same thing! They are the only one to have issues with the tracks.
I will keep you updated when I know more.
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I would also like to add that I would appreciate that my posts on here are not shared over Facebook while this issue is going on!
Please whoever posted MY post on Facebook please remove it immediately!
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You mentioned once before that the problem was just with one track. Was the burned spot on the same side as the exhaust?
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Hiya,
No, it’s the drivers side track that has gone soft.
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It must have gotten very hot. What would explain a problem with just one side? Possibly a brake was dragging for an extended time on a long drive? The only report besides yours on any forum I've seen is one guy in the USA that broke some track guides.
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It has got hot, you are right there! But a brake dragging… definitely not. I would be extremely concerned if someone couldn’t tell that there brakes were dragging and continued driving! Something has come loose inside the track which has caused friction. This friction from the track doing 35/40 MPH and having to bend at least 4 times per revolution has built up pressure and that pressure has had to go somewhere.
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Curious why you are running around at 40mph in your half track? That's only 5mph off the
"documented" top speed.
I normally run 25-30mph in Bertha. She would easily go faster....but why?
These old gals aren't made for speed.
Slow down....enjoy the ride!!! ;)
Keith