halftrackinfo
roller and winch bumper and winch related items => winch, pto shaft and pto => Topic started by: bud44750 on June 09, 2014, 10:44:00 AM
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Hi all,
first time posting, proud new owner of a M16 in fair but running shape. working first on the winch , which came as a bunch of parts. The worm assembly looks to be the proper Tulsa 18G with a spacing of 13.5 inches between the mounts. However, the drum is about 14 1/2 and the end bracket is also 14 1/2 and has one mounting screw vice the two shown for the 18 G. the only other unusual thing is that the cable attachment "U" bolt goes on the clutch side of the drum while the 18G goes on the worm side of the Drum. I'm thinking of using it temporarily by just mounting 1/2 inch spacers on eash side of the worm to allow a 14 1/2 spacing between the cross mounts. Anyone familiar with this situation. Included a few pictures of moving day. I'll look for numbers next and addit to the registry.
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welcome to the group
thats a good looking halftrack. it looks like an M16A2 because it has the modified shovel bracket.
the correct winch spacing is 13.5 inches so you do have something different going on there.
here are some pics of the original winch.
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/3760/IMG_17211.JPG
http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/3760/IMG_17232.JPG
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My Tulsa 18H has the u-bolt on the clutch end.
(http://i1059.photobucket.com/albums/t427/sverburg/DSCN2370_zps8543b729.jpg)
Steve
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thanks, ....the plot thickens ! so the drum may be an 18 H ., but mine seems too large
my drum is 14 inches diameter at the rim so I don't think it will fit w/o spacers on the worm end as the worm end is 13 1/2 like an 18 G is supposed to be., unless it rides just high enough that the effective drum diameter at that location is a bit less than 13 1/2. I'll have to try and put it together to test that idea.
just received parts quote and a 18G drum and end bracket together are nearly half of what I paid for the whole HT, so that project may go on the back burner "awaiting parts". while I look around.
thanks guys
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I have both 18G's and 18H's at my shop. I will measure the drums and arms tomorrow. I know all the parts are interchangeable with each other, so I'm told. I rebuilt my 18H with 18G parts last year with no problems. When I called Tulsa for parts they never heard of an 18H and told me it was a mis-stamped number but I have three 18H's and two 18G's. They pop up all the time on Craigslist. Most I've found are in Battleground, Washington. Don't know why.
Steve A.
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Thanks,
I live close to Battleground, I'll start watching craig's list. might even find a combat wheel up there or a used tire.
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here are some i found with a quick search
im not sure about some from there pics or description
http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?32807-Help-me-ID-this-winch!
http://www.m715zone.com/vb/showthread.php?t=15937
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/hvo/4488327726.html
http://spokane.craigslist.org/hvo/4454221157.html
http://wyoming.craigslist.org/grd/4505599908.html
http://wyoming.craigslist.org/for/4458444238.html
http://rmn.craigslist.org/pts/4478141527.html
http://nacogdoches.craigslist.org/pts/4501562097.html
http://houston.craigslist.org/pts/4507830422.html
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thanks for the info, there seem to be quite a few winches out there, which gives me a lot of hope. I will keep looking.
for info: a new 18 G is $ 3868, a drum alone is over $ 3000 and the end bracket is over $800. all the other parts are likewise expensive .
spent last night trying to get the gauge cluster out, finally found a picture on G503 of the back of the dash so I can see the location of the mounting brackets. my son(graphics guy) is making artwork of the tach and speedometer and there is a place in town that does printing on odd shaped objects with a sort of flexible print head. they seem to think they can reproduce the gauge front if I bring them the blanks. I'll let all know how it turns out and will have some left over as they will want to do them in quantity.
thanks once again for all the help, you have certainly made me feel welcome here. I also make reproduction M2 flamethrowers wands and was thinking of adding them and their accessories to the "ambiance" of the vehicle . has anyone ever seen a picture of a HT with flamethrower stuff on it, wands etc. ??? I could name it Zippo
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I went to the shop today and measured up all my winches. I have an 18H in my halftrack and two 18G's that need restoring (these are for sale if interested). This is what I found.
The inside casting to the outer supporting arm, width, is the same for all three and is 16-3/4". The length of the arms on all three is 13-1/2". The differences I found is in the drum. All three are different. The 18H has the thickest side flange at 1/2" and the cable mounts to the side. Both 18G's the flange is around 1/4" with the cable mounting inside the drum. See photos below.
18H winch
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN1952.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN1953.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN1958.JPG)
18G winch A
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN1954.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN1956.JPG)
18G winch B
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN19553.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/DSCN1957.JPG)
Each of the 18G winches is for sale for $500 as is. I can get the correct sides made for an additional cost as with other parts or you can do it your self. Just PM me if interested.
Steve A.
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I notice a ??? emoticon after m2 wands.so here is a picture of some of the wand parts ( some M9 Vietnam and some M2 WW II. also displayed would be the service boxes , air compressor and fuel and napalm barrels. I think it would make a very different and interesting display on a HT.all I would need is some plausible reason that is was done for real at some point,I do some pattern making and that broken end piece could recast in ductile iron, ductile and nearly strong as steel ( have to check the tensile strength, easy to machine too. usually cheaper to find another however
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Here are some more pictures, note the end bracket bearing is on the center line with the bolts , unlike the the picture you posted above that has the end bracket with the shaft center line slightly above the mounting bolts.( a slight upward bend in the middle of the end bracket) it also has an extra boss for the actuating lever pivot and the shaft hole goes straight through. wonder what it was from??.
after measuring, I think the 14 inch drum will work fine with only a 1/4 inch shim on each side of the worm end and if I come up with a proper end bracket. But just buying a proper used winch is looking like the better bet.
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Are you sure you have an 18G winch? I've never seen that style of end brave before. Can you post photos of the rest of the winch. Maybe you have a different brand winch. The Tulsa winch has a square pad on top of the gear housing with the model number stamped in it...
This one is stamped 18 H
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/100_7250.jpg)
and on the side of the housing should say Tulsa Winch Co.
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/100_7251.jpg)
Steve A.
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here are some pictures. the worm section is indeed 18G , and is stamped as such on the pad as you showed. the drum has thick side walls , about 1/2 inch I'd say. note there are two places to attach cable so you could wind it either way. The drum pictures you posted only had one attachment point rather than two attachment points.......do you think it is a Tulsa drum? the shafts are the same size.
bud
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I think I solved the mystery of that end piece. It is from a different winch, Garwood to be exact. Here are some photos.
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/Garwood_winch_3.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/Garwood_winch_1.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/500/medium/Garwood_winch_2.JPG)
Steve A.
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Thanks Steve.
mystery solved, now if someone only needs an end cap for a Garwood.
I spent last night trying to remove gauges... wow what a chore. is there an easier way than reaching up under the dash to unscrew things that I'm missing. I did succeed in finally getting it out. now on to the speedo. I figure if I do a little bit each night I'll get somewhere eventually.
Since I do metal casting and reproductions as another business, do you think there is a need for hinges or door latches or anything else that I could make for my HT and sell enough to cover my costs?
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I spent last night trying to remove gauges... wow what a chore. is there an easier way than reaching up under the dash to unscrew things that I'm missing. I did succeed in finally getting it out. now on to the speedo. I figure if I do a little bit each night I'll get somewhere eventually.
Well here is the easy way to do it:
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/2156/medium/HPNX1767.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/2156/medium/HPNX1768.JPG)
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/2156/HPNX1818.JPG)
Even with the top armor plate off there is not easy way to get to them.
Don G.
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can the dash be taken off w/o removing that top piece of armor?
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I removed the floor plates with the seats and placesd my extra set with nothing on them. It gave me some extra room to move around in. Removing the steering wheel helps a lot to if you think it is safe. Some I wouldn't touch in fear of damage to the steering shaft, nut and threads. I've seen some bad ones. I'm used to working upside down so it was ok for me. Don makes it look to easy but he did a fantastic job!
Steve A.
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No it really can't. The wiring runs through the box and into the fire wall. Plus the top plat has some caged nuts on a couple of armor bolts. Guarrantied to be a drill out. No easy way to do it. I was restoring mine plus I had to reweld my window frame and fire wall so had to take everything apart anyway. So did my wiring while I was there.
Don G.
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thanks for the tips, I did notice that taking the electric brake out first gave more room to work on the gauge cluster and then with it out the speedometer was easier to get and so on, so it will just be going slow in the right order . I've also started to soak each bolt and nut I can get to in a combination of WD 40 and automatic transmission fluid. after a week or so repeated application of that, most of the bolts and screws come off a lot better.
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Hi ,
yesterday, just as you recommended, I found a winch on Craig's list,in central Washington, sort of in the Battle Ground area. it's in great shape ( was dirt cheap at $200 , what a bargain !! )and turns out to be a 18H just as you had mentioned. I suspect the 18 H was an improvement on the G model as the sides of the drum wouldn't bend as easy as the thinner 18G , thus the " reel out" brake would work better and the side attachment for the cable allowed for easier attachment as well as bi directional attachment. since my M16A2 would probably have had a later model , the 18 H may be as it came originally.
Now looking for a PTO and shaft. anybody have any ideas?
the color of the paint looks a lot more greenish than WWII or Korea OD. and the bolt holes on the frame look different than the location of the holes on my HT. so it must have come off something else??? or could have had the frame rails changed during it's lifetime.
by the way, where are the frame numbers on an M16A2? they are not on the front crosspiece under the loovers
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I have an 18 H winch but the cross angle iron does not have the correct frame attachment holes ( these are staggered) Does anyone have the dimensions of the hole locations, including the guard attachment holes so can make a new front and back cross piece.
thanks
bud
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I was working on my 18 H Tulsa winch and noticed a difference between !8 G and 18 H. The !8 H has an 1.5 output shaft with no keyway. perhaps it had an hydraulic motor drive? . The 18G has an 1.25 output shaft with a keyway. I'm a bit worried how to get the shaft to drive the winch at full power without a keyway but time will tell.
bud
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Bud,
Use a shear pin. I use a soft bolt in place of an oem shear pin.
Steve
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the 18G winches i have here have a 1 1/2" shaft and no keyway. they use a shear pin.
Bud,
Use a shear pin. I use a soft bolt in place of an oem shear pin.
Steve
yes....
i have often wondered how bad it would be if someone used a grade 8 bolt and wasn't paying attention one day.
(http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/data/3760/medium/IMG_18665.JPG)
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I was going by the actual spec sheet from Tulsa on the shaft dia and the new 18 Gs are 1.25,
There must be a shear pin hole in the shaft on mine under all that grease and crud. I'll just have to scrape and look,Thanks for posting the picture with the shear pin. I was worried that I had a real oddball winch there.
bud
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Bud, I have an 18H like you do. The only "freak" part about them is Tulsa claims they never made that model.
Steve, My guess is the cable would break before the G8 bolt! :o
Steve