Now what do I do

[WayOffTrack]

The most important thing in identifying a real m13/m16 is the chassis serial number stamped on the frame. Many m15's and m15a1's and some M3 and M3A1's were rebuilt into m16a1 but only factory built m16's became m16a2's.

[col.halftrack]

 Clint is correct. From the B&M data plate I would say your frame should be stamped M31374 If it is a Diamond T or M3-1374 if it is an Autocar. So we need to know the frame number if it is readable.

[autocar925]

That tag looks exactly like my Autocar M16A1 except my S/N is 1177.  Don't remember the date but I think it is 3-53 also.  Looks like the box is an M13/M16 and your track was either an Autocar or Diamond T.  As far as I have been able to determine, all M13/M16 had winches and all converted Autocar M16A1 had rollers.  Does your track have a roller?

[spec4don]

Yes it is a roller model. I'm on my way home so will try to find a frame number.

Don G

[Outsider]

Well......I would think it to be sac-religious to build a M3 into a M16 or M16A2. So that would mean that Don has 2 more HT builds in his future?  Right?

Steve

[WayOffTrack]

I think what confuses people is there are winch model M16A1's. Every one of these I've inspected personally were either Diamond T or possibly Autocar M3's and M3A1's with the corresponding frame numbers. I always assumed there were some Autocars with winches now I'm not sure. It breaks down like this.

White made all the M16's. Some were converted from M13's also only made by White. These will have frame serial numbers in the range 273xxx to 29xxxx. All left the factory with winches. Some were later upgraded to M16A2 status during the 50's by adding rear doors and fixing the folding armor in place and some other minor details.

All M16A1's were made in the 50's and many used long frame chassis from M15's and m15A1s all of which were roller models and as we know made by Autocar only. Also some M16A1's were made from Autocar and Diamond T M3's and M3A1's. Some had rollers (maybe all the Autocars?) and some had winches. New side and rear armor was made for the M15 type vehicles while the M16A1's made from M3's retained the original rear armor and just had the floors replaced and the cab bulkhead filled in.

I have an Autocar M3A1 roller model that started out as an M3-75GMC was then converted to M3A1 and had a new frame serial number stamped on it and then was converted to an M16A1 for Korea. There are at least a dozen or so others like it out there per the serial number database. My Dad had a Diamond T winch model M3A1 that was also converted to M16A1.

[spec4don]

Where would I look for the frame #? I checked the usual spots but couldn't find it. I'll try again with better lighting.

Don G

[WayOffTrack]

It's probably a Diamond T they stamped the numbers so lightly in some cases they are unreadable now. Maybe if you sandblast the area behind the left front tire you can pull something up. I'd restore it to M16A2 nobody cares what it was originally for the most part. Also I have seen 3 or 4 M16a2's with rollers so it's possible some 16a2 bodies were placed on roller model frames for whatever reason. A couple were probably done by collectors but who knows maybe it was a field expedient like the m16B or perhaps damaged winch model frames were rebuilt using roller model halftracks. I don't think we will ever know for sure about some of this stuff. Sure is a nice find keep up the good work.

On a side note has anyone seen an original M13 data plate?

[WayOffTrack]

and all converted Autocar M16A1 had rollers

I think you are correct about this. I can't remember seeing any Autocar with a winch now that I think about it. Did Autocar build any halftracks with winches?

[col.halftrack]

Clint,
 My M13 had its original data plate. I will try to post it when I can. When converted to M16 they simply Stamped a number 6 over the raised 3.
 As for Autocar M3 and M3a1 with winches I believe they did. There are several I and others have listed on the G503 Halftrack list.
Kevin

[Outsider]

My Autocar stared life as a M3, it was then converted to a M3A1, and in 1952 was converted by B&M to a M16A1. It has a factory installed winch, and IIRC about every 2nd or 3rd HT off the line has a roller, the rest were winches.

Steve

[WayOffTrack]

Good to know thanks guys.

[big44maghunter]

Mine is an Autocar that started as an M3 and was converted to m16a1.  Had a roller (that I need if anyone has an extra!
Brad

[WayOffTrack]

I have an extra original roller Brad. Shoot me a pm.

[big44maghunter]

PM sent wayofftrack!