Nicknames, markings and Unit designations

[Tapper02]

Hey Pat,
  So I think I'm taking your suggestion and going with 4th Armored, 35th Tank Battalion.  BUT, I have a couple of questions:

1)  What is the symbol for a Tank Battalion?  Is it the same as an Armored Regiment (Δ), or is it something different?  I don't see it listed in the AR 850-5, but mine is dated 1942 so maybe that's before the formation of Tank Battalions?
2)  What's up with the 6-HQ-6 on your halftrack?  Reading the aforementioned AR 850-5, it makes mention of the "HQ" succeeded by the vehicle number (i.e. "6" for sixth vehicle), but I can't figure out the preceding "6".
-Also, when counting vehicles, I'm assuming it is the total vehicles in the HQ element?  Referencing your second post, there are 4 jeeps, 2 halftracks and 2 tanks in the battalion HQ. Is there a precedence of the order those vehicles would be assigned, or can I choose a random number from 1 to 8?

Thanks, Tom

[67tank]

Tom
To the best of my knowledge:

1.  Yes.  The triangle is the symbol for Armor.  Division. Regiment. Battalion

2.  Its 3 HQ 6 on mine.  3rd battalion.  HQ.  6th vehicle.  Because the 67th stayed as a regiment under the “Heavy” Armored Division structure I have seen a couple of photos with the Bn designation in front   (see photo of a 3rd Bn track going ashore in Sicily). That way to tell differ nice bewtween the Regiment, 1st, 2nd and 3rd BN HQs.   4th Armored Division went to the “light” structure and only had the separate Tank BN ie 8th BN, 35th BN, and 37th BN and therefore no need to separate the HQs.

3.   That is a great question and I have asked a lot of folks and never quite got the same answer.  Some modelers shared with me some photos of Halftracks in HQ from 2AD with numbers of either 6 or 7.  I haven’t seen anything else so I chose 6.  I know the manual calls for the “order of March” but no idea what that means for ‘43-45.  Tanks 1 and 2??  Jeeps 3, 4, and 5 and then 8 with the HT 6 and 7???  Was it different per Division or Corp SOP?  Every time you think you know there’s another photo that challenges the convention.

[Tapper02]

Yes, 3-HQ-6.... not sure what I was thinking (or typing).

Thanks for the explanation...that makes sense.

So I would be looking at something like:  4Δ 35Δ        HQ-2 (or some other number following the HQ)

-Tom

[67tank]

Tom. That’s correct. But look what I found on Facebook colorisied photos. HQ 8.
Notice the markings on the side. 

A company of M3A1 Half Tracks of the US 4th Armored Division, passing through the liberated town of Avranches, Normandy. August 1944

[67tank]

And then there’s this:   Notice the location of the POM stencil

A unit of the US 25th Cavalry Reconnaissance Squadron (Mechanized), 4th Armored Division moves through the village of Le Repas, commune de Folligny (Manche), in Normandy on July 31, 1944.

Up front are two M8 Greyhounds and behind them, a M3A1 Halftrack and Jeeps.

The wreck on the left is an Opel Blitz from the 9./(Flak) SS-Panzer-Regiment 2, 2./SS-Panzer-Division "Das Reich"

(Photo source - US Army Signal Corps)

(Colourised by Richard James Molloy)

[RB-058]

Thank you for sharing your information and pictures Pat!
And what a treasure of information btw! In my opinion this kind of information becomes priceless as times goes by and memories fade away.
Thanks for putting so much time and effort in this post!

[Tapper02]

Tom. That’s correct. But look what I found on Facebook colorisied photos. HQ 8.
Notice the markings on the side.

Interesting Pat....very similar to this pic (below) of a 50th Armored Infantry Battalion M3A1 during the Battle of the Bulge.

https://goo.gl/images/p4JYAg

I wonder if the triangle on the pic you posted is solid white like the circle, or if there are any other markings inside of it?  I've searched the web but haven't found any other examples....yet.

Also, I ran across this site that, while tank specific, gives some insight into the additional markings on their Shermans:

http://www.6tharmoreddivision.com/index.php?p=articles

"The 6th Armored Division had three Tank Battalions: the 15th, the 68th and the 69th. Each battalion had its own insignia.
Because the 15th was known as the Wolf Pack, it had a wolf's head over an armored triangle as the battalion insignia. In some black and white photos the marking appears as a wolf head on a simple white square. Sometimes the painting wasn't even finished before the vehicle was sent into action.
Some veterans also mentioned it made them nervous to go into action with a big white target painted on their tanks.
The 69th had a Panther inside the hull stars as its battalion insignia. Apparently it is rather rare to see a 69th tank with the insignia painted on as it has only been seen on some light tanks from D Company and a couple of howitzers from HQ Company.
The 68th use two types of insignia: a "Fighting Turtle", the Disney character Toby Tortoise and a white triangle. The white triangle was by far the most used although the turtle has been seen in some photos.

Next to the battalion insignias, the tanks would also have a hull number. The tanks were numbered as follows:

    HQ Company: 11 - 19
    A Company: 21 - 38
    B Company: 41 - 58
    C Company: 61 - 78
    D Company: 81 - 98"

-Tom

[Tapper02]

Here's another pic, borrowed from the site that Rob just posted up, depicting a triangle forward of the national symbol, with the vehicle number aft:

-Tom

[67tank]

First  Thanks Tom for the awesome photos and information

I found a post on a FB "We are the Mighty"  describing markings on helmets for the 101 Airborne. It might be that the 4th Armored and other AD's used a similar marking system? 

"The practice of painting the symbol onto a helmet was created in England just before the Normandy Invasion. The purpose was that when a soldier jumped or glided into Normandy and got separated from a larger portion of the unit, the easily identifiable symbol would easily mark a soldier as being apart of a specific regiment and a small dash at the 12, 3, 6, or 9 o’clock position specified the battalion.
Spades were designated for the 506th Infantry Regiment, Hearts for the 502nd, Diamonds for the 501st, and clubs for the 327th Glider Infantry. The ‘tic’ marks went from 12 o’clock meaning HQ or HQ company, 3 o’clock being 1st battalion, 6 o’clock being 2nd, and 9 o’clock being 3rd battalion." 

[67tank]

Every division has a SOP for "Tac Signs" (term we used int he 80-90's) for marking maneuver battalions.  in WW2 2AD called them 'Speed Numbers'.  This allows the maneuver units to distinguish between battalions and brigades in the 'fog of war' 

MODERN EXAMPLE 
In the 90's my battalion was assigned to 3rd Brigade, 1st Cav Division for a couple of years and we used a simple two digit numbering system.  The first number indicated the battalion and the second number the company.  Then an arrow indicated platoon. 

See photo 1.  From left to right tank from 1st, 2nd and 3rd platoon, Charlie Company, 3-67 Armor Bn, 3rd Bde
The number 8 indicated 8th Battalion.
1,2, 3 battalions were in 1st Brigade, 4,5,6 battalions in 2nd Brigade, 7,8,9 battalions in 3rd Brigade
The number 3 indicated Charlie Compnay
0 would be Hq and HQ company, 1 would be Alpha, 2 would be Bravo, 3, Charlie, and 4 Delta
An up arrow is 1st platoon, a right facing arrow is 2nd platoon, and a down arrow is 3rd platoon.  No arrow would be HQ section

After two years we were re-assigned to 2nd Bde, 2nd Armored Division and our Tac sign changed to a 4 digit number. 
See photo 2.  In this case 6365
6 for 6th Bn (2nd Bde)
3 for 3rd company (Charlie)
and 65 for the Company XO's tank

Photo 3 #5136
5th Battalion (also 2nd BDE) our sister battalion 1/67 Armor
1st Company ie Alpha
36 Platoon Leader 3rd Platoon. 

Make sense?  So there has to be Division SOP for the circle, triangle markings that Tom has shown above - I will ask a friend to check with the 4th AD Association at the next reunion.....

[yd328]

So, Photo 3, tanks do get stuck? . 

Thanks for the info, I have been following this thread closely.  A lot of great info.

Gary

[67tank]

Steve A reached out to me because he is interested in marking up his halftrack with the 70th Infantry Division (Trailblazers) which is affiliated to his home state of Oregon.  As I have previously stated, the 'straight leg' Infantry Divisions were only issued 5 halftracks for the organic units (this does not apply to specialized Infantry Divisions aka Airborne and Mountain Divisions).  So I did some research and it appears that all five halftracks in an Infantry Division were located in the organic Cavalry Reconnaissance Troop (Mechanized)

After a little checking, it appears that in WW2 the Cav Recon Troop is numbered the same as the Infantry division it was assigned - so the 28th Inf Div (Bloody Bucket) would have the 28th Cav Recon Troop, the 70th Inf Div would have 70th Cav Recon Troop, 80th Inf Div(Blue Ridge) would have had 80th Recon Troop and so on. 

The 70th Infantry Div Association has a great layout of how the Recon Troop was organized(the actual TO&E)    http://www.trailblazersww2.org/units_organization.htm

Let's use the 28th Division as an example - A halftrack assigned to the 28th Recon Troop would have bumper numbers

28-X and 28R-#   (# being the vehicles number based on the order of march) 

28 for the 28th Infantry Division
X for a special company of the Div
28R for 28th recon troop
Then you need to decide on a number-  the Recon Troop had a HQ platoon and 3 scout platoons.  The Halftracks were in the HQ platoon. Trailers counted as a vehicle so if the TO&E is correct, there are 22 vehicles in the HQ platoon.  So the correct number would be somewhere between 1 and 22.  I have yet to see a reference photo - anyone have information to the contrary? 

HQ Platoon:
Command section
3 M8’s
4 jeeps
Admin section
3 HTs each with trailers
1 2 1/2 ton with trailer
1 Jeep
Maintenance section
M8
2 HT with trailers
1 2 1/2 ton with trailer
1 Jeep


Note:  For the US Army Troop, Battery and Company are equivalent size units.  Cavalry uses Troop, Artillery uses Battery, and Infantry/Armor/Engineers use Company

[67tank]

Finally got access to the veterans 4th AD  Facebook page and they have some great photos.  Here is a some tracks of the 53rd AIB of CCR, 4th AD during Operation Cobra. 
Of the three MOH awarded to members of the 4th AD, one of them was from this unit.  He was awarded the MOH for actions on Christmas Day during the relief of Bastogne.

Found this online about his actions:

On Christmas Day, CCR and headed toward Neufchâteau. On their way, CCR fought many small skirmishes at places like Vaux-lez-Rosières, Petite Rosières, Cobreville, Remoiville and Remichampagne. From there on the 26th, CCR sent divided task forces into different areas. “C team”, made up of C co./37th TB and C co./53rd AIB headed toward Assenois. Unlike the small villages they fought in over the last 48 hours, Assenois was heavily defended by eight anti-tank gun positions, paratroopers from the 5th FJ Division and soldiers from General Kokott’s 26th Volksgrenadier Division. The American units called for a heavy artillery barrage on the town. Lieutenant Boggess, the commander of "Cobra King”, the lead tank, raced into town firing his machine guns and cannon wildly. The Germans managed to escape the barrage and came into the fight as elements of C Team sped through town. A huge close quarter battle ensued with many hand-to-hand fights in the streets erupting where the armored infantrymen had to dismount and battle the Germans. One member of C/53, Private James Hendrix, managed to single handedly knock out two 88mm guns. He returned to his squad to fight again and saw a half-track that was hit and had injured men spread around the vehicle. He managed to leave his half-track to give aid to the wounded men and take out a machine gun crew that had inflicted additional casualties. But that was not it for him… he also witnessed another half-track take hits and erupt in flames. He heard the screams of a wounded man in the track and pulled him to safety. That soldier unfortunately died later from his wounds. 19 year old James Hendrix was later awarded the Medal of Honor for his actions that day. As the fight for Assenois continued, Lieutenant Boggess opened up the distance between his M4A3E2 and the rest of his team heading down the road out of town. He never stopped when elements of his team were damaged due to mines in the road. He advanced further with 2 other Shermans blasting their way through the forest on either side of the road. They came upon a pillbox and blasted it several times. From the woods emerged several figures and Lieutenant Boggess called out to them informing them who he was. One soldier made their way towards “Cobra King” and said “I’m Lieutenant Webster of the 326th Engineers, 101st Airborne. The 4th had made it to Bastogne.

[8683jb]

Thanks for posting this Pat. Just reading it gives me goosebumps. I'm a candy-ass compared to those guys.

[col.halftrack]

IMO Armored Infantry and the M36 Jackson are the 2 most underappreciated elements of WW2.
 Great pics! Thanks Pat